[LAU] Difference F7 and Fmaj

[rosea grammostola]

Hi,

First: I have changed my email adress a while ago and I try to use this
emailadress instead of schoappied now. My real name in real life is Dirk.


Can someone tell me if there is difference between F7 and Fmaj7, what is
that difference theoretical spoken?

Thanks,

[Allan Wind]

Post by rosea grammostola
Can someone tell me if there is difference between F7 and Fmaj7, what is
that difference theoretical spoken?

F7 F A C Eb
Fmaj7 F A C E

Not sure how to address the 2nd part of your question.


/Allan

[Anders Dahnielson]

Post by rosea grammostola
Can someone tell me if there is difference between F7 and Fmaj7, what is
that difference theoretical spoken?

F7 is a Dominant 7 chord with a major 3rd and minor 7th, while Fmaj7 is
Major 7 chord with a major 3rd and major 7th:

http://en.dahnielson.com/2007/03/jazz-notes.html/3/#toc-quality

[Brett McCoy]

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 3:10 PM, rosea grammostola

Post by rosea grammostola
First: I have changed my email adress a while ago and I try to use this
emailadress instead of schoappied now. My real name in real life is Dirk.
Can someone tell me if there is difference between F7 and Fmaj7, what is
that difference theoretical spoken?

Fmaj7 chord has 1 3 5 7
Fmin7 chord has 1 b3 5 b7
F7 (dominant 7th) chord has 1 3 5 b7

-- Brett
------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden;
If I were to divulge it, it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi

[frank pirrone]

Post by Brett McCoy
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 3:10 PM, rosea grammostola

Post by rosea grammostola
First: I have changed my email adress a while ago and I try to use this
emailadress instead of schoappied now. My real name in real life is Dirk.
Can someone tell me if there is difference between F7 and Fmaj7, what is
that difference theoretical spoken?

Fmaj7 chord has 1 3 5 7
Fmin7 chord has 1 b3 5 b7
F7 (dominant 7th) chord has 1 3 5 b7
-- Brett

...and since this was a pretty basic question let me focus on just one
difference between the two chords: the half-step between the dominant 7
and the major 7.

The word major in that chord's name indicates that the seventh note in
the scale is raised a half-step over the same chord without that
designation in the name. Same applies with a Major 9th chord - the
seventh is again a half-step higher than in a plain 9th

Frank

[rosea grammostola]

Post by frank pirrone

Post by Brett McCoy
-- Brett

...and since this was a pretty basic question let me focus on just one
difference between the two chords: the half-step between the dominant 7
and the major 7.
The word major in that chord's name indicates that the seventh note in
the scale is raised a half-step over the same chord without that
designation in the name. Same applies with a Major 9th chord - the
seventh is again a half-step higher than in a plain 9th
Frank
Thanks! I guess this is why I posted this question on this list :)

*me = walking back to his 'piano' to hit some keys...

[p***@musikhuset.org]

Post by rosea grammostola

Post by frank pirrone

Post by Brett McCoy
-- Brett

...and since this was a pretty basic question let me focus on just one
difference between the two chords: the half-step between the dominant 7
and the major 7.
The word major in that chord's name indicates that the seventh note in
the scale is raised a half-step over the same chord without that
designation in the name. Same applies with a Major 9th chord - the
seventh is again a half-step higher than in a plain 9th
Frank
Thanks! I guess this is why I posted this question on this list :)

*me = walking back to his 'piano' to hit some keys...

These are two excelent sites to show you chords on piano and guitar
respectively:
http://keychord.com/ and http://chordfind.com/

[Jeremiah Benham]

Post by rosea grammostola
Hi,
First: I have changed my email adress a while ago and I try to use
this emailadress instead of schoappied now. My real name in real life
is Dirk.
Can someone tell me if there is difference between F7 and Fmaj7, what
is that difference theoretical spoken?

F7 = 1,3,5,b7 (F A C Eb)
Fmaj7 = 1,3,5,7 (F A C E)

Jeremiah

Post by rosea grammostola
Thanks,
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Linux-audio-user mailing list
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user

[rosea grammostola]

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Jeremiah Benham

Post by Jeremiah Benham

Post by rosea grammostola
Hi,
First: I have changed my email adress a while ago and I try to use
this emailadress instead of schoappied now. My real name in real life
is Dirk.
Can someone tell me if there is difference between F7 and Fmaj7, what
is that difference theoretical spoken?

F7 = 1,3,5,b7 (F A C Eb)
Fmaj7 = 1,3,5,7 (F A C E)
And how do you play it on piano? For example F6? F A C Des, how and where

do you play the 6 on the keys?

[Steve Fosdick]

Post by Jeremiah Benham
F7 = 1,3,5,b7 (F A C Eb)
Fmaj7 = 1,3,5,7 (F A C E)
And how do you play it on piano? For example F6? F A C Des, how
and where do you play the 6 on the keys?

The numbers refer not to the actual note played but to it's place in
the scale. What the person replying was saying was that 7 chord is
played by using the 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th elements of the scale with
the 7th one flattenned a semitone. The maj7 chord is the same but the
7th note is not flattenned.

Now you asked specifically about F7 and Fmaj7 so in this case the scale
to which those numbers refer is the one that starts on 'F' so the notes
you would actually play would be F A C Eb for F7 and F A C E for Fmaj7.
Using the numbers you could work out what E7 or Emaj7 would be or
indeed for any root note.

Steve.

[rosea grammostola]

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:39 AM, Steve Fosdick

Post by Steve Fosdick

Post by Jeremiah Benham
F7 = 1,3,5,b7 (F A C Eb)
Fmaj7 = 1,3,5,7 (F A C E)
And how do you play it on piano? For example F6? F A C Des, how
and where do you play the 6 on the keys?

The numbers refer not to the actual note played but to it's place in
the scale. What the person replying was saying was that 7 chord is
played by using the 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th elements of the scale with
the 7th one flattenned a semitone. The maj7 chord is the same but the
7th note is not flattenned.
Now you asked specifically about F7 and Fmaj7 so in this case the scale
to which those numbers refer is the one that starts on 'F' so the notes
you would actually play would be F A C Eb for F7 and F A C E for Fmaj7.
Using the numbers you could work out what E7 or Emaj7 would be or
indeed for any root note.
But there is no Fmaj6? If I got you right F6 is F A C and bD (flanttened a

semitone)... but that seems not the case for F6, keychor.com says F6 = F A C
D!... how come??

[Dave Phillips]

Post by rosea grammostola
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:39 AM, Steve Fosdick
The numbers refer not to the actual note played but to it's place in
the scale. What the person replying was saying was that 7 chord is
played by using the 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th elements of the scale with
the 7th one flattenned a semitone. The maj7 chord is the same but the
7th note is not flattenned.
Now you asked specifically about F7 and Fmaj7 so in this case the scale
to which those numbers refer is the one that starts on 'F' so the notes
you would actually play would be F A C Eb for F7 and F A C E for Fmaj7.
Using the numbers you could work out what E7 or Emaj7 would be or
indeed for any root note.
But there is no Fmaj6? If I got you right F6 is F A C and bD
(flanttened a semitone)... but that seems not the case for F6,
keychor.com <http://keychor.com> says F6 = F A C D!... how come??

Fmaj7 is the diatonic I7 chord in the key of F (F A C E).

F7 is the diatonic V7 chord in the key of Bb (F A C Eb).

F6 (F A C D) is an added-note chord, it's the I chord in the key of F,
and it can be used as a direct substitution for Fmaj7. Note that it is
also an inversion of the Dm7 chord, the diatonic 7th chord on the 6th
degree of the F major scale.

You should pick up and read completely a standard text on harmony. I
went through the harmony books by Walter Piston, Roger Sessions, and
Arnold Schoenberg, but others here may recommend different texts. Which
text you use doesn't matter so much, as long as you acquire a systematic
understanding of the subject.

Best,

dp

[Fons Adriaensen]

Post by Dave Phillips
You should pick up and read completely a standard text on harmony.

Seconded. But note that the way harmony is treated in the classical
music and in the jazz traditions is not exactly the same. Not only
the terminology and notation are different, but also some basic
concepts. It can be very confusing to do both at the same time.
Also, going through the history of classical music, it's clear
that "harmony" is a moving target.

Post by Dave Phillips
I went through the harmony books by Walter Piston, Roger Sessions, and
Arnold Schoenberg, but others here may recommend different texts. Which
text you use doesn't matter so much, as long as you acquire a systematic
understanding of the subject.

Paul Hindemith, "Traditional Harmony" is one, there are
many others.

Ciao,

[Anders Dahnielson]

Post by Fons Adriaensen

Post by Dave Phillips
You should pick up and read completely a standard text on harmony.

Seconded. But note that the way harmony is treated in the classical
music and in the jazz traditions is not exactly the same. Not only
the terminology and notation are different, but also some basic
concepts. It can be very confusing to do both at the same time.
Also, going through the history of classical music, it's clear
that "harmony" is a moving target.

Post by Dave Phillips
I went through the harmony books by Walter Piston, Roger Sessions, and
Arnold Schoenberg, but others here may recommend different texts. Which
text you use doesn't matter so much, as long as you acquire a systematic
understanding of the subject.

Paul Hindemith, "Traditional Harmony" is one, there are
many others.

Also, "Tonal Harmony" by Stefan Kostka and Dorothy Payne appears to be
highly regarded by many (it's on my to-read list).

[Dave Phillips]

... note that the way harmony is treated in the classical
music and in the jazz traditions is not exactly the same. Not only
the terminology and notation are different, but also some basic
concepts. It can be very confusing to do both at the same time.
Also, going through the history of classical music, it's clear
that "harmony" is a moving target.

Yes, I realized after I sent that message that I should have mentioned
the difference between jazz harmony texts and the more "classical" tomes.

More modern texts (Persichetti's book is a good example) present the
notions of non-functional 7ths, melodic chording, clusters, chords by
4ths, etc. Serial harmony is a whole other domain, and Elliott Carter's
harmony book is yet another way of comprehending the possibilities of
non-serial chromaticism (see also the theoretical writings by Stefan Wolpe).

The traditional approaches still apply, especially since the vast
majority of music we hear is tonal/modal, with more or less clear
harmonic functions and relationships.

[Grammostola Rosea]

Post by Dave Phillips
Yes, I realized after I sent that message that I should have mentioned
the difference between jazz harmony texts and the more "classical" tomes.
More modern texts (Persichetti's book is a good example) present the
notions of non-functional 7ths, melodic chording, clusters, chords by
4ths, etc. Serial harmony is a whole other domain, and Elliott Carter's
harmony book is yet another way of comprehending the possibilities of
non-serial chromaticism (see also the theoretical writings by Stefan Wolpe).
The traditional approaches still apply, especially since the vast
majority of music we hear is tonal/modal, with more or less clear
harmonic functions and relationships.

[david]

Post by Dave Phillips

Post by rosea grammostola
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:39 AM, Steve Fosdick
The numbers refer not to the actual note played but to it's place in
the scale. What the person replying was saying was that 7 chord is
played by using the 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th elements of the scale with
the 7th one flattenned a semitone. The maj7 chord is the same but the
7th note is not flattenned.
Now you asked specifically about F7 and Fmaj7 so in this case the scale
to which those numbers refer is the one that starts on 'F' so the notes
you would actually play would be F A C Eb for F7 and F A C E for Fmaj7.
Using the numbers you could work out what E7 or Emaj7 would be or
indeed for any root note.
But there is no Fmaj6? If I got you right F6 is F A C and bD
(flanttened a semitone)... but that seems not the case for F6,
keychor.com <http://keychor.com> says F6 = F A C D!... how come??

Fmaj7 is the diatonic I7 chord in the key of F (F A C E).
F7 is the diatonic V7 chord in the key of Bb (F A C Eb).
F6 (F A C D) is an added-note chord, it's the I chord in the key of F,
and it can be used as a direct substitution for Fmaj7. Note that it is
also an inversion of the Dm7 chord, the diatonic 7th chord on the 6th
degree of the F major scale.

Yup. The only difference between a C2 chord and a C9 chord is the
interval between the C and the D ... which is what makes it sound
different! And an E2 chord can also be a B4 chord ...

[garryo]

rosea, you might take a look at:

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/jazz-chord-progressions.html

there is other good stuff elsewhere on this site.
also:

http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/index.html


best wishes, G.