Discussion:
[LAU] How to keep an updated "standard" linux audio system?
(too old to reply)
Fede
2017-12-10 15:52:05 UTC
Permalink
I used to try to keep my software as stable as possible by avoiding
upgrades for as long as possible, but it ended up being troublesome,
because then you have to compile your own libraries, and things tend
to go out of hand when you want to receive bug fixes from later
versions.

My question is: How do you people keep an updated system stable? Do
you wipe your drive clean and start over every ubuntu LTS release?

If you are not on a debian based distro, how do you handle the lack of
a kxstudio repo?

Thanks to all!
Ralf Mardorf
2017-12-10 16:53:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fede
I used to try to keep my software as stable as possible by avoiding
upgrades for as long as possible, but it ended up being troublesome,
because then you have to compile your own libraries, and things tend
to go out of hand when you want to receive bug fixes from later
versions.
My question is: How do you people keep an updated system stable? Do
you wipe your drive clean and start over every ubuntu LTS release?
If you are not on a debian based distro, how do you handle the lack of
a kxstudio repo?
Hi,

in my experiences Arch Linux is the better distro for easily
maintaining audio packages. I've got both installed, Ubuntu (a tailored
install based on the server image) as well as Arch Linux [1].

I package a lot of software myself, but I'm carefully with upgrading
software during a production, IOW I usually keep up with upstream, but
not necessarily install already build software [2].

FWIW David Runge became an Arch Linux TU in October and already started
to maintain ill-kept audio packages provided by official Arch Linux
repositories. At the moment his packages are in the testing repo,
unfortunately I don't have time to help testing at the moment.

Apart from the official repository Arch provides the Arch User
Repository with lots of audio software and at least the IMO important
software is well maintained. Arch now has it's own audio mailing list
again, so others and I could help you to build packages. However, Arch
Linux is not a user-friendly distro, you need some Linux knowledge to
maintain an Arch Linux install.

There is no need for a third party repository as there is for Ubuntu,
since the distros have different policies. You e.g. can't get
linuxsampler by an official Ubuntu repository, regarding it's invalid
license. This isn't an issue for Arch Linux [3]. Linuxsampler is
provided by an official Arch repository.

Regards,
Ralf

[1]
[***@archlinux rocketmouse]# cat /etc/os-release
NAME="Arch Linux"
PRETTY_NAME="Arch Linux"
ID=arch
ID_LIKE=archlinux
ANSI_COLOR="0;36"
HOME_URL="https://www.archlinux.org/"
SUPPORT_URL="https://bbs.archlinux.org/"
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.archlinux.org/"

[***@archlinux rocketmouse]# systemd-nspawn -qD /mnt/moonstudio lsb_release -a
LSB Version: core-9.20160110ubuntu0.2-amd64:core-9.20160110ubuntu0.2-noarch:security-9.20160110ubuntu0.2-amd64:security-9.20160110ubuntu0.2-noarch
Distributor ID: Ubuntu
Description: Ubuntu 16.04.3 LTS
Release: 16.04
Codename: xenial

[2]
[***@archlinux ~]$ uname -rm
4.13.13-rt5-1-rt x86_64
[***@archlinux ~]$ pacman -Q ardour5 jack2 x42-plugins
ardour5 5.8-1
jack2 1.9.10.r293.gc44a220f-1
x42-plugins 20161230-1
[***@archlinux ~]$ ls -hAl /var/cache/aur/ | grep '\-rw'
-rw-r--r-- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse 9.1M Sep 16 16:45 ardour-5.12-1-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz
-rw-r--r-- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse 932K May 27 2017 x42-plugins-20170428-1-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz

[3]
[***@archlinux ~]$ pacman -Qi linuxsampler | grep License
Licenses : GPL custom:exception
jonetsu
2017-12-10 17:05:14 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 12:52:05 -0300
Post by Fede
My question is: How do you people keep an updated system stable? Do
you wipe your drive clean and start over every ubuntu LTS release?
If you are not on a debian based distro, how do you handle the lack of
a kxstudio repo?
I use Linux Mint since maybe 7 years, or more. I update through the
Mint update application. I choose a long term release so it can stay
the same for years, eg. getting security updates for maybe 4 years or
more so no need to fully update. After installing Mint I go through
my checklist for audio use and install a proper kernel, some libraries,
the soft synths, the plugins, etc. And that's it. Everything can run
fine for years, from past experience.

Naturally, all the data is not anywhere near a system partition. This
means that all data can be shared amongst any Linux OS that can be
booted. So once in every 5 years or so I update the OS by
installing a brand new one somewhere else. Then I go trough the
checklist, and make the symlinks to the data and it's basically ready
to go.

Cheers.
Ralf Mardorf
2017-12-10 17:30:05 UTC
Permalink
I choose a long term release so it can stay the same for years, eg.
getting security updates for maybe 4 years or more so no need to fully
update.
This is not correct, security upgrades are not supported for every
repository [1], let alone that there could be regressions for security
reasons. For example claws-mail-fancy-plugin is from universe [2] as
well as it's hard dependency libwebkitgtk [3]. If it would be granted
that universe would receive security upgrades, than libwebkitgtk would
get dropped and anything depending on it, as e.g.
claws-mail-fancy-plugin, too.

If you need security you better go with a real rolling release
(Debian sid isn't a real rolling release, since it does freeze from time
to time) or you only install packages from an Ubuntu repository that is
maintained by the Ubuntu security team.

Arch Linux is a real rolling release and provides tools, such as e.g.
arch-audit [4], while Ubuntu seems not to provide such tools, it at
least provides a website [5], but than again, keep in mind that by the
Ubuntu policy not all repositories are maintained by the Ubuntu
security team.


[1] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories
[2] https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/claws-mail-fancy-plugin
[3] https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/libwebkitgtk-1.0-0
[4] [***@archlinux ~]$ arch-audit --upgradable
Package openssl-1.0 is affected by CVE-2017-3736, CVE-2017-3735. Medium risk!. Update to 1.0.2.m-1 from testing repos!
Package perl-xml-libxml is affected by CVE-2017-10672. High risk!
[5] https://usn.ubuntu.com/usn/
jonetsu
2017-12-10 18:08:54 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:30:05 +0100
Post by Ralf Mardorf
This is not correct, security upgrades are not supported for every
repository [1], let alone that there could be regressions for security
reasons.
That's very probably right. I do not know how Linux Mint depends on
Debian. It could be quite heavily. Fortunately, security is not the
prime concern. Just basics. I considered several times to go with
Arch Linux. I used to build my own Linux systems using BLFS but those
were the days. So much time not making music. Arch Linux seems to
offer a good stance but then again, I can't at the moment estimate the
time that would be required to move to Arch Linux and the problem
associated with the move to get everything going. Days ? A week ?

Cheers.
Ralf Mardorf
2017-12-10 18:22:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by jonetsu
On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:30:05 +0100
Post by Ralf Mardorf
This is not correct, security upgrades are not supported for every
repository [1], let alone that there could be regressions for
security reasons.
That's very probably right. I do not know how Linux Mint depends on
Debian. It could be quite heavily. Fortunately, security is not the
prime concern. Just basics. I considered several times to go with
Arch Linux. I used to build my own Linux systems using BLFS but those
were the days. So much time not making music. Arch Linux seems to
offer a good stance but then again, I can't at the moment estimate the
time that would be required to move to Arch Linux and the problem
associated with the move to get everything going. Days ? A week ?
Indeed, to tailor a Linux install could be time-consuming. I did this
when I was jobless and I notice that my full-time job nowadays makes it
hard to maintain my tailored Linux installs, let alone to use them to
make music. Anyway, if you are willing to install a DE and you don't
want to tailor your whole Linux install, than the transition to Arch
shouldn't be too time-consuming for you. Linux novices should stay with
Ubuntu and derivatives for a few years, before migrating to Arch Linux.
However, it at least takes days to migrate from one to another distro
and honestly, it's more safe to expect that it takes weeks, at least if
you shouldn't be 20 years young, but in my age > 50 years "young".
Ralf Mardorf
2017-12-10 18:36:45 UTC
Permalink
I do not know how Linux Mint depends on Debian.
My apologies for confusing you by mentioning Debian sid. IIRC nowadays
Mint is based upon Ubuntu. The policies I mentioned are Ubuntu
policies, let alone that the links are Ubuntu related links ;).
However, take a look at the Debian tracker, for example
https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/jackd2 . At the right side you could see
that Debian at least is partial the upstream for Ubuntu and Ubuntu
derivatives.
Anders Hellquist
2017-12-11 14:13:17 UTC
Permalink
This is indeed a question one have to ask from time to time.

I have been running kxstudio for a very long time and are in the process of
changing some of my music related machines from 14.04 which is the latest
official falktx distro
Since I depend on kxstudio repos my options are limited to Debian or Ubuntu
and right now I am more inclined to go the Debian route.

The main reason for me to switch is U-he plugins that seems to require
newer gcc API/ABI to work. Also Mixbus is freezing on the same machine so I
suspect newer libs and kernel drivers might get me a more stable
environment.

Any valid reasons to go the Ubuntu route, ya think ?

/Anders
Post by Ralf Mardorf
I do not know how Linux Mint depends on Debian.
My apologies for confusing you by mentioning Debian sid. IIRC nowadays
Mint is based upon Ubuntu. The policies I mentioned are Ubuntu
policies, let alone that the links are Ubuntu related links ;).
However, take a look at the Debian tracker, for example
https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/jackd2 . At the right side you could see
that Debian at least is partial the upstream for Ubuntu and Ubuntu
derivatives.
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
Fede
2017-12-11 16:14:53 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for all the answers.

As some of you pointed out, of course one needs to split data and
system partitions and I've been doing that since I can remember.
I used to be a rolling release guy, but I've been using debian on my
main workstation and ubuntu on my netbook for quite a few years
already (in computer relative terms, of course).

Currently I run ubuntu 14.04 on my netbook and debian 8 on my workstation.

I keep it debian based because of the kxstudio repos, and also because
when people design software they target the more mainstream systems,
and keeping it as standard as possible makes you compatible with
interesting bits and pieces of software around the web.

The problem is, as anders stated, that once your distro release turns
around two years of age, developers start targeting newer libraries'
versions and you slowly become incompatible.

But when you upgrade a fixed release distro, you are bound to break
something. Specially if you compiled your own software. And by the
time you need to upgrade, your system is already so custom tailored to
your likings that it is a pain to start over.

Hence the topic of this thread.

I guess there is always a tradeoff. I'll probably dist-upgrade
sometime during summer break (hey, southern hemisphere).

Thanks to all for your assistance!
Post by Anders Hellquist
This is indeed a question one have to ask from time to time.
I have been running kxstudio for a very long time and are in the process of
changing some of my music related machines from 14.04 which is the latest
official falktx distro
Since I depend on kxstudio repos my options are limited to Debian or Ubuntu
and right now I am more inclined to go the Debian route.
The main reason for me to switch is U-he plugins that seems to require
newer gcc API/ABI to work. Also Mixbus is freezing on the same machine so I
suspect newer libs and kernel drivers might get me a more stable
environment.
Any valid reasons to go the Ubuntu route, ya think ?
/Anders
Post by Ralf Mardorf
I do not know how Linux Mint depends on Debian.
My apologies for confusing you by mentioning Debian sid. IIRC nowadays
Mint is based upon Ubuntu. The policies I mentioned are Ubuntu
policies, let alone that the links are Ubuntu related links ;).
However, take a look at the Debian tracker, for example
https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/jackd2 . At the right side you could see
that Debian at least is partial the upstream for Ubuntu and Ubuntu
derivatives.
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
Len Ovens
2017-12-11 19:19:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anders Hellquist
official falktx distro
Since I depend on kxstudio repos my options are limited to Debian or Ubuntu and
right now I am more inclined to go the Debian route.
The main reason for me to switch is U-he plugins that seems to require newer gcc
API/ABI to work. Also Mixbus is freezing on the same machine so I suspect newer
libs and kernel drivers might get me a more stable environment.
Any valid reasons to go the Ubuntu route, ya think ?
The Ubuntu LTS seems a good deal, but there are not a lot of people
working on keeping things specific to audio in best running order. In
particular the version of jackd has from time to time been broken (though
it seems just fine these days). The focus of Ubuntu is servers and
desktop. Those parts will work well. I personally would use Ubuntu rather
than a derivitive of Ubuntu which tends to be behind Ubuntu. But though I
do use Ubuntu now and have been since 2010-ish. I am thinking to change
though I am still thinking what I should change to. I have purposely
chosen hardware that has open drivers so I don't need to choose something
that has blobs in the kernel. I personally have stayed away from the Unity
DE and find xfce to be the most stable and usable. Lxde works as well but
is not well polished and I would only use it if my hardware forced me to.
Also, be aware that Ubuntu is looking to stop support for 32 bit system
after 18.04. That is, 18.04 will be the last LTS that comes with 32 bit
kernels that are maintained by the ubuntu kernel team. Lubuntu will (I
believe) continue to offer 32 bit kernels though.

--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
Alf Haakon Pietruszka Lund
2017-12-11 20:34:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Len Ovens
The Ubuntu LTS seems a good deal, but there are not a lot of people
working on keeping things specific to audio in best running order. In
particular the version of jackd has from time to time been broken
(though it seems just fine these days). The focus of Ubuntu is servers
and desktop. Those parts will work well. I personally would use Ubuntu
rather than a derivitive of Ubuntu which tends to be behind Ubuntu. But
though I do use Ubuntu now and have been since 2010-ish. I am thinking
to change though I am still thinking what I should change to. I have
purposely chosen hardware that has open drivers so I don't need to
choose something that has blobs in the kernel. I personally have stayed
away from the Unity DE and find xfce to be the most stable and usable.
Lxde works as well but is not well polished and I would only use it if
my hardware forced me to. Also, be aware that Ubuntu is looking to stop
support for 32 bit system after 18.04. That is, 18.04 will be the last
LTS that comes with 32 bit kernels that are maintained by the ubuntu
kernel team. Lubuntu will (I believe) continue to offer 32 bit kernels
though.
I like the Ubuntu LTS option as well (currently running Ubuntu Studio
16.04). Usually lagging a bit, say a year, before installing on a
production machine (though my production is very modest).

There's a bi-annual (more or less) small pain of reinstalling and
re-configuring, requiring a few days before most stuff works without
hickups. I guess waiting longer between upgrades would mean spending
more time 'in configuration mode' - a less frequent but bigger pain ;-)

I never gave Unity a fair shot as I really like xfce - and those tweaks
added by the Ubuntu Studio team.

Alf
Len Ovens
2017-12-11 22:48:04 UTC
Permalink
I never gave Unity a fair shot as I really like xfce - and those tweaks added
by the Ubuntu Studio team.
I have tried unity but find it too much like a phone to do real work on.
That was a few years ago and things have improved (I'm told) but I would
not want to start with it now as Ubuntu has stopped development on it (and
MIR thankfully) and will be going with gnome sometime soon... on top of
wayland. So 18.04 will either be much better or a mess :)

Glad you like the studio tweaks, I worked on some of that.

--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
worik
2017-12-11 22:49:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Len Ovens
I have tried unity but find it too much like a phone to do real work
on. That was a few years ago and things have improved (I'm told) but I
would not want to start with it now as Ubuntu has stopped development
on it (and MIR thankfully) and will be going with gnome sometime
soon... on top of wayland. So 18.04 will either be much better or a mess
Unity has been discontinued.  About time!  Ubuntu using Gnome Shell. 
Same problems...

W
--
If not me then who? If not now then when? If not here then where?
So, here I stand, I can do no other
***@worik.org 021-1680650, (03) 4821804 Aotearoa (New Zealand)
john gibby
2017-12-12 11:18:37 UTC
Permalink
I'm kind of afraid to ask, but what do y'all think of AV Linux? It is more
like an "appliance" than a distribution. Pluses and minuses for that, I
guess. There are no security updates; you just use what you got (and hope
for the best), until you install a new version. I get the new version every
year or 2. I keep a detailed list of steps and file backups, for how to
re-configure a new version for my audio/piano system. It gives me low
latency and good performance, out of the box.
http://www.bandshed.net/avlinux/
Post by Len Ovens
I have tried unity but find it too much like a phone to do real work
on. That was a few years ago and things have improved (I'm told) but I
would not want to start with it now as Ubuntu has stopped development
on it (and MIR thankfully) and will be going with gnome sometime
soon... on top of wayland. So 18.04 will either be much better or a mess
Unity has been discontinued. About time! Ubuntu using Gnome Shell.
Same problems...
W
--
If not me then who? If not now then when? If not here then where?
So, here I stand, I can do no other
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
Jonathan E. Brickman
2018-01-08 23:36:11 UTC
Permalink
I'm kind of afraid to ask, but what do y'all think of AV Linux?  It is
more like an "appliance" than a distribution.  Pluses and minuses for
that, I guess.  There are no security updates; you just use what you
got (and hope for the best), until you install a new version. I get
the new version every year or 2.  I keep a detailed list of steps and
file backups, for how to re-configure a new version for my audio/piano
system.  It gives me low latency and good performance, out of the box.
http://www.bandshed.net/avlinux/
I have used it and liked it.  I don't use it for my own production work
simply because I need the environment as lean and simple as possible, I
don't have use for most of what AV Linux gives.  If I did, I would go
there very quickly and immediately, a huge amount of work is pre-done in
that image.

J.E.B.

Jonathan E. Brickman
2018-01-08 13:01:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Len Ovens
Post by Anders Hellquist
Since I depend on kxstudio repos my options are limited to Debian or Ubuntu and
right now I am more inclined to go the Debian route.
The main reason for me to switch is U-he plugins that seems to require newer gcc
API/ABI to work. Also Mixbus is freezing on the same machine so I suspect newer
libs and kernel drivers might get me a more stable environment.
Any valid reasons to go the Ubuntu route, ya think ?
The Ubuntu LTS seems a good deal, but there are not a lot of people
working on keeping things specific to audio in best running order. In
particular the version of jackd has from time to time been broken
(though it seems just fine these days). The focus of Ubuntu is servers
and desktop. Those parts will work well.
All are why I have been sticking to Arch derivatives for quite a while
:-)  I just converted a heavily-used Manjaro/XFCE4 desktop, two years in
use and regularly updated, into a Linux audio testing machine, without
glitches.  Amazing.
--
/Jonathan E. ***@ponderworthy.com
<http://login.jsp/?at=02e47df3-a9af-4cd9-b951-1a06d255b48f&mailto=***@ponderworthy.com>   (785)233-9977/
/Hear us at http://ponderworthy.com -- CDs and MP3s now available!
<http://ponderworthy.com/ad-astra/ad-astra.html>/
/Music of compassion; fire, and life!!!/
Peter Lutek
2018-01-08 16:09:28 UTC
Permalink
would you be kind enough to outline your "conversion" procedure?

cheers!
.pltk.
... I just converted a heavily-used Manjaro/XFCE4 desktop, two years in
use and regularly updated, into a Linux audio testing machine, without
glitches.
--
peter lutek - improvising musician
http://peterlutek.com
Len Ovens
2018-01-08 16:23:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Lutek
would you be kind enough to outline your "conversion" procedure?
In general, this means back up what you have, install new OS, restore at
least your home directories, then install any binaries you have of
specific software (Ardour, plugins, synths) if you choose (though I think
Arch has most things you would need as packages) and go. Be aware that you
would either choose to install the same DE as you were using before or get
used to another. XFCE is quite a stable and versitile DE (Gnome2 like)
that doesn't get in the way of audio or video production. If you happened
to be using Unity as your DE (what were you thinking!?) you would have to
learn to use a new DE (but then Ubuntu has given up on Unity too so the
same either way)

A common method in Linux is to use two partitions (or more), One small one
40G for the OS and a big partition for /home. I actually have a number of
20G partitions to try various OS but in the last while have been finding
that cramped which is why I am suggesting 40G :) This makes it easy to
install a new OS to try out without disturbing your data.
Post by Peter Lutek
... I just converted a heavily-used Manjaro/XFCE4 desktop, two years in
use and regularly updated, into a Linux audio testing machine, without
glitches.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
Peter Lutek
2018-01-08 16:45:37 UTC
Permalink
thanks, len!

i'm used to that whole drill, having done it many times with various
distributions. i'm more interested in specifics of achieving a stable,
low-latency audio workstation * within the Arch ecology * -- i.e. are
there any particular caveats or helpful configuration tools to be aware
of in that distribution?

cheers!
.pltk.
Post by Len Ovens
Post by Peter Lutek
would you be kind enough to outline your "conversion" procedure?
In general, this means back up what you have, install new OS, restore at
least your home directories, then install any binaries you have of
specific software (Ardour, plugins, synths) if you choose (though I
think Arch has most things you would need as packages) and go. Be aware
that you would either choose to install the same DE as you were using
before or get used to another. XFCE is quite a stable and versitile DE
(Gnome2 like) that doesn't get in the way of audio or video production.
If you happened to be using Unity as your DE (what were you thinking!?)
you would have to learn to use a new DE (but then Ubuntu has given up on
Unity too so the same either way)
A common method in Linux is to use two partitions (or more), One small
one 40G for the OS and a big partition for /home. I actually have a
number of 20G partitions to try various OS but in the last while have
been finding that cramped which is why I am suggesting 40G :) This makes
it easy to install a new OS to try out without disturbing your data.
Post by Peter Lutek
...  I just converted a heavily-used Manjaro/XFCE4 desktop, two years in
use and regularly updated, into a Linux audio testing machine,
without glitches.
--
peter lutek - improvising musician
http://peterlutek.com
Ralf Mardorf
2018-01-08 17:39:23 UTC
Permalink
are there any particular caveats or helpful configuration tools to be
aware of in that distribution?
Hi,

I can't speak for Arch derivatives, but I'm a long time Arch user.
There are neither caveats nor helpful configuration tools, there is
just one thing you need to know about Arch Linux, it's aimed for Linux
experienced power users. To me it's the most user-friendly distro, but
it isn't user-friendly in an Ubuntu kind of user-friendliness. A
default install is more basic, than an install from the Ubuntu server
image, with all uncheckable packages unchecked.

In a nutshell:

"Simplicity

Arch Linux defines simplicity as without unnecessary additions or
modifications. It ships software as released by the original developers
(upstream) with minimal distribution-specific (downstream) changes:
patches not accepted by upstream are avoided, and Arch's downstream
patches consist almost entirely of backported bug fixes that are
obsoleted by the project's next release.

In a similar fashion, Arch ships the configuration files provided by
upstream with changes limited to distribution-specific issues like
adjusting the system file paths. It does not add automation features
such as enabling a service simply because the package was installed.
Packages are only split when compelling advantages exist, such as to
save disk space in particularly bad cases of waste. GUI configuration
utilities are not officially provided, encouraging users to perform
most system configuration from the shell and a text editor." -
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux#Simplicity

"User centrality

Whereas many GNU/Linux distributions attempt to be more user-friendly,
Arch Linux has always been, and shall always remain user-centric. The
distribution is intended to fill the needs of those contributing to it,
rather than trying to appeal to as many users as possible. It is
targeted at the proficient GNU/Linux user, or anyone with a
do-it-yourself attitude who is willing to read the documentation, and
solve their own problems." -
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux#User_centrality

"Drop of i686 support

On 2017-01-25 it was announced that support for the i686 architecture
would be phased out due to its decreasing popularity among the
developers and the community. By the end of November 2017, all i686
packages were removed from the mirrors." -
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux#Drop_of_i686_support

The new Arch audio mailing list:
https://lists.archlinux.org/listinfo/arch-proaudio

The mailing list related to the so called "Arch user repository":
https://lists.archlinux.org/listinfo/aur-general

The Arch Linux users mailing list:
https://lists.archlinux.org/listinfo/arch-general

You either need to read the latest news on the Arch homepage or
subscribe to https://lists.archlinux.org/listinfo/arch-announce, since
upgrades might require manual intervention during transitions.

Regards,
Ralf
--
$ pacman -Q linux{,-rt{,-cornflower,-pussytoes}}|awk '{print $2}'
4.14.12-1
4.14.6_rt7-1
4.11.12_rt16-1
4.14.8_rt9-2
Jonathan E. Brickman
2018-01-08 23:31:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralf Mardorf
are there any particular caveats or helpful configuration tools to be
aware of in that distribution?
Hi,
I can't speak for Arch derivatives, but I'm a long time Arch user.
There are neither caveats nor helpful configuration tools, there is
just one thing you need to know about Arch Linux, it's aimed for Linux
experienced power users. To me it's the most user-friendly distro, but
it isn't user-friendly in an Ubuntu kind of user-friendliness. A
default install is more basic, than an install from the Ubuntu server
image, with all uncheckable packages unchecked.
Yup.  That's why I don't use pure Arch, it takes a lot more time at
setup than I care to devote.  Manjaro has been doing me a lot of good
for quite some time now.  Before that I used Archbang.  Manjaro includes
lots of GUI config tools.  Not up to Ubuntu's GUIzation, but a lot more
than pure Arch.
--
/Jonathan E. ***@ponderworthy.com
<http://login.jsp/?at=02e47df3-a9af-4cd9-b951-1a06d255b48f&mailto=***@ponderworthy.com>   (785)233-9977/
/Hear us at http://ponderworthy.com -- CDs and MP3s now available!
<http://ponderworthy.com/ad-astra/ad-astra.html>/
/Music of compassion; fire, and life!!!/
jonetsu
2018-01-08 17:18:34 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 8 Jan 2018 08:23:34 -0800 (PST)
Post by Len Ovens
In general, this means back up what you have, install new OS, restore
at least your home directories, ...
There are perhaps two meanings to this.

1) home directory as in /home/user/

2)"home directories" in a very large sense which can mean for
instance /B/plugins/ /C/samples/ /D/myMusic/ etc... and are hosted
elsewhere than in /home/ "home" being used very loosely and with no
relation to the directory computer term. Like "the Earth is my home".

I would advice to leave /home/user/ as much aside as possible. Rarely
store anything at all in there. Make other directories on perhaps
other drives, which are accessible by any other Linux system that
machine can boot. Easier to backup, cleaner to maintain. Reboot
another Linux OS and all your plugins are still in /B/Plugins/.

The new OS can do anything in /home/usr/, the user would not really
care. That is, if one does not craft for hours and days a desktop
environment with 100 detailed Pantone colours. In which case that user
would probably want to back up his 'work'.

Cheers.
Len Ovens
2018-01-08 17:56:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by jonetsu
On Mon, 8 Jan 2018 08:23:34 -0800 (PST)
Post by Len Ovens
In general, this means back up what you have, install new OS, restore
at least your home directories, ...
There are perhaps two meanings to this.
1) home directory as in /home/user/
2)"home directories" in a very large sense which can mean for
instance /B/plugins/ /C/samples/ /D/myMusic/ etc... and are hosted
elsewhere than in /home/ "home" being used very loosely and with no
relation to the directory computer term. Like "the Earth is my home".
Ya, most of the directories in ~/ are links to other directories on a
bigger drive on my system.

--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
Peter Lutek
2018-01-08 18:08:32 UTC
Permalink
me too... keeping my data easily accessible from multiple OS partitions,
and in locations outside of the standard distro structure for
independence from upgrades and re-installs.
Post by Len Ovens
Ya, most of the directories in ~/ are links to other directories on a
bigger drive on my system.
--
peter lutek - improvising musician
http://peterlutek.com
Jonathan E. Brickman
2018-01-08 23:28:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Lutek
...  I just converted a heavily-used Manjaro/XFCE4 desktop, two years in
use and regularly updated, into a Linux audio testing machine,
without glitches.
Post by Peter Lutek
would you be kind enough to outline your "conversion" procedure?
cheers!
.pltk.
Yup.  yaourt -S cadence and recommendeds, and yaourt/pacman the apps I
use (right now, just yoshimi).  Also the usual config changes discovered
with realtimeconfigquickscan, no kernel change needed, no reload.  It
helps that I use xfce4, which interferes a lot less than other desktops
have in my past.  I was very surprised at how well it went; in my most
recent production box build, about a year ago, I had to scrag xfce4 and
go with LXDE to get rid of some xruns.
--
/Jonathan E. ***@ponderworthy.com
<http://login.jsp/?at=02e47df3-a9af-4cd9-b951-1a06d255b48f&mailto=***@ponderworthy.com>   (785)233-9977/
/Hear us at http://ponderworthy.com -- CDs and MP3s now available!
<http://ponderworthy.com/ad-astra/ad-astra.html>/
/Music of compassion; fire, and life!!!/
Mac
2018-01-08 17:33:01 UTC
Permalink
Probably just to add to the confusion, I admit to not having followed this
thread in detail and this comment may be totally superfluous...I'll throw
this out there:

I found when I was using AVLinux that it was a really stable and great for
upgrading when the time came. And the RT kernel it uses was great even on
slower PC's.

(Full disclosure: I use Ubuntu Studio almost exclusively at the moment.
Nothing against AVL, just switched temporarily a while back and haven't
gotten around to going back.)

http://www.bandshed.net/avlinux/
Post by Peter Lutek
thanks, len!
i'm used to that whole drill, having done it many times with various
distributions. i'm more interested in specifics of achieving a stable,
low-latency audio workstation * within the Arch ecology * -- i.e. are there
any particular caveats or helpful configuration tools to be aware of in
that distribution?
cheers!
.pltk.
Post by Peter Lutek
would you be kind enough to outline your "conversion" procedure?
In general, this means back up what you have, install new OS, restore at
least your home directories, then install any binaries you have of specific
software (Ardour, plugins, synths) if you choose (though I think Arch has
most things you would need as packages) and go. Be aware that you would
either choose to install the same DE as you were using before or get used
to another. XFCE is quite a stable and versitile DE (Gnome2 like) that
doesn't get in the way of audio or video production. If you happened to be
using Unity as your DE (what were you thinking!?) you would have to learn
to use a new DE (but then Ubuntu has given up on Unity too so the same
either way)
A common method in Linux is to use two partitions (or more), One small
one 40G for the OS and a big partition for /home. I actually have a number
of 20G partitions to try various OS but in the last while have been finding
that cramped which is why I am suggesting 40G :) This makes it easy to
install a new OS to try out without disturbing your data.
... I just converted a heavily-used Manjaro/XFCE4 desktop, two years in
use and regularly updated, into a Linux audio testing machine, without
glitches.
--
peter lutek - improvising musician
http://peterlutek.com
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