Discussion:
[LAU] Ubuntu 18.04 can't stop Jack from qjackctl
Dale Powell
2018-07-07 11:28:06 UTC
Permalink
Hi all.

I've been using Ubuntu Studio since 14.04, always run with Jack as the main audio server and generally never had any issues. Upgraded to Ubuntu Studio 18.04 and everything was fine for some months but within the last week or so I can't get the Jack Server to Stop from within QJackCtl, the application just hangs, making it quite a pain to change between using my internal and external devices!

Any idea what may be causing this or steps to fault find the issue?

Currently I have set QJackCtl to not connect on startup, so I can killall qjackctl, kill -9 jackdbus(pid), restart qjackctl, select correct config and start the server running. So I can get on with my work but obviously it would be nice if things worked as they should again.

Regards, Dale.
Dale Powell
2018-07-07 13:03:51 UTC
Permalink
If I disable D-Bus Interface and Jack D-Bus Interface in the Misc Preferences I _seem_ to be able to stop and start the server. But it's clearly still not working right! I can't actually change saved config without quitting and re-opening qjackctl. Even then it will something try and start the jack server automatically even though the Preference setting is set to not do so. Ontop of that no matter if I have dbus enabled I *always* get "/usr/bin/jackdbus auto" listed if i ps ax to see what is actually running.

Has somebody broken Jackd in Ubuntu?

Is it strange that I seem to have both jackd and jackd2 installed and to attempt to remove either wants to remove different selections of packages? Although this can't be the issue as this side of things hasn't changed in the last two weeks and this working as it should do has!

Dale.
________________________________
From: Linux-audio-user <linux-audio-user-***@lists.linuxaudio.org> on behalf of Dale Powell <***@hotmail.com>
Sent: 07 July 2018 11:28
To: linux-audio-***@lists.linuxaudio.org
Subject: [LAU] Ubuntu 18.04 can't stop Jack from qjackctl

Hi all.

I've been using Ubuntu Studio since 14.04, always run with Jack as the main audio server and generally never had any issues. Upgraded to Ubuntu Studio 18.04 and everything was fine for some months but within the last week or so I can't get the Jack Server to Stop from within QJackCtl, the application just hangs, making it quite a pain to change between using my internal and external devices!

Any idea what may be causing this or steps to fault find the issue?

Currently I have set QJackCtl to not connect on startup, so I can killall qjackctl, kill -9 jackdbus(pid), restart qjackctl, select correct config and start the server running. So I can get on with my work but obviously it would be nice if things worked as they should again.

Regards, Dale.
Ralf Mardorf
2018-07-07 15:13:29 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 13:03:51 +0000, Dale Powell wrote:
>Is it strange that I seem to have both jackd and jackd2 installed

Don't confuse the virtual "jackd" package with "jackd1", see
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/jackd.

QjackCtl for example does depend on the virtual package "jackd".
QjackCtl neither depends on "jackd1", nor on "jackd2" directly, see
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/qjackctl , so it's possible to use
either "jackd1" or "jackd2", but only one, "jackd1" or "jackd2" could be
installed, not both at the same time. The package "jackd" is just a
substitute, again, "jackd" is _not_ "jackd1".

--
pacman -Q linux{,-rt{,-securityink,-cornflower,-pussytoes}}|cut -d\ -f2
4.17.4-1
4.16.15_rt7-1
4.16.12_rt5-1
4.16.8_rt3-1
4.14.34_rt27-1
Len Ovens
2018-07-07 15:59:38 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 7 Jul 2018, Dale Powell wrote:

> If I disable D-Bus Interface and Jack D-Bus Interface in the Misc Preferences I
> _seem_ to be able to stop and start the server. But it's clearly still not
> working right! I can't actually change saved config without quitting and
> re-opening qjackctl. Even then it will something try and start the jack server
> automatically even though the Preference setting is set to not do so. Ontop of
> that no matter if I have dbus enabled I *always* get "/usr/bin/jackdbus auto"
> listed if i ps ax to see what is actually running.
>
> Has somebody broken Jackd in Ubuntu?

I use it daily and have been for some months now. Seeing jackdbus auto in
the ps output does not mean jack is active, it just means that jackdbus
has been started by dbus. Running jack_control status will return
"stopped" if jackd is not running though.

>
> Is it strange that I seem to have both jackd and jackd2 installed and to attempt
> to remove either wants to remove different selections of packages? Although this

WHat makes you think you have both jackd and jackd2 installed? apt should
not allow installing jackd1 without removing jackd2 (and lots of other
things) jackd2 installs both jackd (version 1.9) and jackdbus (version
1.9). The problem (feature) with the debian jackd2 install of both jackd
and jackdbus, is that if jack is not running and the user starts an
application looking for jack, it will start jackd for them by default.
then qjackctl will not be able to run jackdbus as normal. things have been
this way since forever it seems.

--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
Dale Powell
2018-07-07 16:11:29 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the pointers everybody.

Ralph was correct in that I didn't know that jackd was a virtual package to cover both as the libraries are meant to be (on the whole at least) compatible so I admit that always confused me a little in the past. Makes sense now.

Thanks for pointing out jack_control, I should have searched that first rather than brute forcing it with the ugly commands I know.

Well it seems to stop and start with no issues with jack_control so almost certainly the issue lies with qjackctl.

You all say it's working fine for you. As I said it was for me until today, well last time I would have had to use the function before today was roughly two weeks ago, but it has worked with no issues in 18.04 between installation a few days after release (I got a new SSD so didn't wait for the point release like I usually would) up until today. So it's a new issue with a previously working package, not something that has always been like this on 18.04 for me. When did you last do an apt upgrade?

Thanks for your help, Dale.
Len Ovens
2018-07-07 16:32:19 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 7 Jul 2018, Dale Powell wrote:

> Thanks for pointing out jack_control, I should have searched that first rather
> than brute forcing it with the ugly commands I know.

jackdbus, as I understand things, if a wrapper around jackd. It is
however, very tightly coupled because it can do things like change the
master device or sample rate (don't do that) without stopping jack. It may
be that qjackctl is using this ability when you change devices. I have
found that I can plugin a USB device and switch master to that device
without stopping jack and most connections (except to system*) stay
connetced and the clients don't notice anything. However that only seems
to work once, trying to switch master twice (back to internal so I can
pull the plug) seems to freeze jackdbus.

certainly pulling the plug while jack is using a USB device has always
been a problem for me though I know of others who have been able change
master even after unplugging the device.

I do not recall having this problem in the past. Something to look at in
the code to see what is different from jackd 1.9.11 and 1.9.12.

> package, not something that has always been like this on 18.04 for me. When did
> you last do an apt upgrade?

apt update shows: "All packages are up to date."


--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
Dale Powell
2018-07-07 16:39:47 UTC
Permalink
"The problem (feature) with the debian jackd2 install of both jackd
and jackdbus, is that if jack is not running and the user starts an
application looking for jack, it will start jackd for them by default.
then qjackctl will not be able to run jackdbus as normal."

I have qjackctl as one of my Startup Applications, starts minimised to Tray but is always running well before I could even consider opening an audio application so this definitely isn't my issues. I've always worked like this.

I didn't think you could change devices, or generally get any of the Settings you change to take affect, without Stopping and Starting the Jack Server again. Not actually really tested it though. I have two saved configs, one for my internal audio, one for my external interface. I'd usually - Stop, open Settings, select other Config, OK, Start - and everything would be good. Now it hangs when I hit Stop, or if it doesn't and looks to have stopped I don't believe it really has as I did a test and still got unbroken sound, which I know usually dies if I Stop Jack while something is playing through it.

I've tried with the d-bus settings both enabled and disabled with no overall joy but have to admit I've always been confused into exactly what affect these really have on the system....

Dale.
________________________________
From: Linux-audio-user <linux-audio-user-***@lists.linuxaudio.org> on behalf of Len Ovens <***@ovenwerks.net>
Sent: 07 July 2018 16:32
To: linux-audio-user
Subject: Re: [LAU] Ubuntu 18.04 can't stop Jack from qjackctl

On Sat, 7 Jul 2018, Dale Powell wrote:

> Thanks for pointing out jack_control, I should have searched that first rather
> than brute forcing it with the ugly commands I know.

jackdbus, as I understand things, if a wrapper around jackd. It is
however, very tightly coupled because it can do things like change the
master device or sample rate (don't do that) without stopping jack. It may
be that qjackctl is using this ability when you change devices. I have
found that I can plugin a USB device and switch master to that device
without stopping jack and most connections (except to system*) stay
connetced and the clients don't notice anything. However that only seems
to work once, trying to switch master twice (back to internal so I can
pull the plug) seems to freeze jackdbus.

certainly pulling the plug while jack is using a USB device has always
been a problem for me though I know of others who have been able change
master even after unplugging the device.

I do not recall having this problem in the past. Something to look at in
the code to see what is different from jackd 1.9.11 and 1.9.12.

> package, not something that has always been like this on 18.04 for me. When did
> you last do an apt upgrade?

apt update shows: "All packages are up to date."


--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net<http://www.ovenwerks.net>
Dale Powell
2018-07-07 17:10:31 UTC
Permalink
Installed and tested with Cadence and it works perfectly as expected. Issue only exists with qjackctl. Maybe I should just make the switch....

Except how do I switch audio device in Cadence? Device/Interface is greyed out even with Jack stopped. Plus it doesn't seem to let me save the configs for quick loading and latency etc is also different as they can handle different settings without xruns. Surely Cadence is able to do this too??

Dale.
________________________________
From: Linux-audio-user <linux-audio-user-***@lists.linuxaudio.org> on behalf of Dale Powell <***@hotmail.com>
Sent: 07 July 2018 16:39
To: Len Ovens; linux-audio-user
Subject: Re: [LAU] Ubuntu 18.04 can't stop Jack from qjackctl

"The problem (feature) with the debian jackd2 install of both jackd
and jackdbus, is that if jack is not running and the user starts an
application looking for jack, it will start jackd for them by default.
then qjackctl will not be able to run jackdbus as normal."

I have qjackctl as one of my Startup Applications, starts minimised to Tray but is always running well before I could even consider opening an audio application so this definitely isn't my issues. I've always worked like this.

I didn't think you could change devices, or generally get any of the Settings you change to take affect, without Stopping and Starting the Jack Server again. Not actually really tested it though. I have two saved configs, one for my internal audio, one for my external interface. I'd usually - Stop, open Settings, select other Config, OK, Start - and everything would be good. Now it hangs when I hit Stop, or if it doesn't and looks to have stopped I don't believe it really has as I did a test and still got unbroken sound, which I know usually dies if I Stop Jack while something is playing through it.

I've tried with the d-bus settings both enabled and disabled with no overall joy but have to admit I've always been confused into exactly what affect these really have on the system....

Dale.
________________________________
From: Linux-audio-user <linux-audio-user-***@lists.linuxaudio.org> on behalf of Len Ovens <***@ovenwerks.net>
Sent: 07 July 2018 16:32
To: linux-audio-user
Subject: Re: [LAU] Ubuntu 18.04 can't stop Jack from qjackctl

On Sat, 7 Jul 2018, Dale Powell wrote:

> Thanks for pointing out jack_control, I should have searched that first rather
> than brute forcing it with the ugly commands I know.

jackdbus, as I understand things, if a wrapper around jackd. It is
however, very tightly coupled because it can do things like change the
master device or sample rate (don't do that) without stopping jack. It may
be that qjackctl is using this ability when you change devices. I have
found that I can plugin a USB device and switch master to that device
without stopping jack and most connections (except to system*) stay
connetced and the clients don't notice anything. However that only seems
to work once, trying to switch master twice (back to internal so I can
pull the plug) seems to freeze jackdbus.

certainly pulling the plug while jack is using a USB device has always
been a problem for me though I know of others who have been able change
master even after unplugging the device.

I do not recall having this problem in the past. Something to look at in
the code to see what is different from jackd 1.9.11 and 1.9.12.

> package, not something that has always been like this on 18.04 for me. When did
> you last do an apt upgrade?

apt update shows: "All packages are up to date."


--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net<http://www.ovenwerks.net>
Dale Powell
2018-07-07 17:27:48 UTC
Permalink
Moved the config file to generate a new one and for now it seems to be working, correctly stopping and saved a new config for both internal and external. Strange as this hasn't been touched by me for at least a month, if not more like two, and was definitely working just two weeks ago when I had a gig. Oh well, thanks for all your help and I really should have tried that as the first step!
________________________________
From: Linux-audio-user <linux-audio-user-***@lists.linuxaudio.org> on behalf of Dale Powell <***@hotmail.com>
Sent: 07 July 2018 17:10
To: linux-audio-user
Subject: Re: [LAU] Ubuntu 18.04 can't stop Jack from qjackctl

Installed and tested with Cadence and it works perfectly as expected. Issue only exists with qjackctl. Maybe I should just make the switch....

Except how do I switch audio device in Cadence? Device/Interface is greyed out even with Jack stopped. Plus it doesn't seem to let me save the configs for quick loading and latency etc is also different as they can handle different settings without xruns. Surely Cadence is able to do this too??

Dale.
________________________________
From: Linux-audio-user <linux-audio-user-***@lists.linuxaudio.org> on behalf of Dale Powell <***@hotmail.com>
Sent: 07 July 2018 16:39
To: Len Ovens; linux-audio-user
Subject: Re: [LAU] Ubuntu 18.04 can't stop Jack from qjackctl

"The problem (feature) with the debian jackd2 install of both jackd
and jackdbus, is that if jack is not running and the user starts an
application looking for jack, it will start jackd for them by default.
then qjackctl will not be able to run jackdbus as normal."

I have qjackctl as one of my Startup Applications, starts minimised to Tray but is always running well before I could even consider opening an audio application so this definitely isn't my issues. I've always worked like this.

I didn't think you could change devices, or generally get any of the Settings you change to take affect, without Stopping and Starting the Jack Server again. Not actually really tested it though. I have two saved configs, one for my internal audio, one for my external interface. I'd usually - Stop, open Settings, select other Config, OK, Start - and everything would be good. Now it hangs when I hit Stop, or if it doesn't and looks to have stopped I don't believe it really has as I did a test and still got unbroken sound, which I know usually dies if I Stop Jack while something is playing through it.

I've tried with the d-bus settings both enabled and disabled with no overall joy but have to admit I've always been confused into exactly what affect these really have on the system....

Dale.
________________________________
From: Linux-audio-user <linux-audio-user-***@lists.linuxaudio.org> on behalf of Len Ovens <***@ovenwerks.net>
Sent: 07 July 2018 16:32
To: linux-audio-user
Subject: Re: [LAU] Ubuntu 18.04 can't stop Jack from qjackctl

On Sat, 7 Jul 2018, Dale Powell wrote:

> Thanks for pointing out jack_control, I should have searched that first rather
> than brute forcing it with the ugly commands I know.

jackdbus, as I understand things, if a wrapper around jackd. It is
however, very tightly coupled because it can do things like change the
master device or sample rate (don't do that) without stopping jack. It may
be that qjackctl is using this ability when you change devices. I have
found that I can plugin a USB device and switch master to that device
without stopping jack and most connections (except to system*) stay
connetced and the clients don't notice anything. However that only seems
to work once, trying to switch master twice (back to internal so I can
pull the plug) seems to freeze jackdbus.

certainly pulling the plug while jack is using a USB device has always
been a problem for me though I know of others who have been able change
master even after unplugging the device.

I do not recall having this problem in the past. Something to look at in
the code to see what is different from jackd 1.9.11 and 1.9.12.

> package, not something that has always been like this on 18.04 for me. When did
> you last do an apt upgrade?

apt update shows: "All packages are up to date."


--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net<http://www.ovenwerks.net>
Dominique Michel
2018-07-08 03:57:52 UTC
Permalink
Le Sat, 7 Jul 2018 17:27:48 +0000,
Dale Powell <***@hotmail.com> a écrit :

> Moved the config file to generate a new one and for now it seems to
> be working, correctly stopping and saved a new config for both
> internal and external. Strange as this hasn't been touched by me for
> at least a month, if not more like two, and was definitely working
> just two weeks ago when I had a gig. Oh well, thanks for all your
> help and I really should have tried that as the first step!

Using gentoo, jackdbus and qjackctl from their source repositories, I
noticed than when updating jack, qjackctl can loose control on jack
if I don't update it at the same time. I also noticed than, to update
both software at the same time is not always enough for qjackctl to
keep control over jack. In that case, the only cure is to remove all the
jack/qjackctl config files in $HOME. It would be great if qjackctl
could be able to do that by itself.

Best,
Dominique

> ________________________________ From: Linux-audio-user
> <linux-audio-user-***@lists.linuxaudio.org> on behalf of Dale
> Powell <***@hotmail.com> Sent: 07 July 2018 17:10 To:
> linux-audio-user Subject: Re: [LAU] Ubuntu 18.04 can't stop Jack from
> qjackctl
>
> Installed and tested with Cadence and it works perfectly as expected.
> Issue only exists with qjackctl. Maybe I should just make the
> switch....
>
> Except how do I switch audio device in Cadence? Device/Interface is
> greyed out even with Jack stopped. Plus it doesn't seem to let me
> save the configs for quick loading and latency etc is also different
> as they can handle different settings without xruns. Surely Cadence
> is able to do this too??
>
> Dale.
> ________________________________
> From: Linux-audio-user
> <linux-audio-user-***@lists.linuxaudio.org> on behalf of Dale
> Powell <***@hotmail.com> Sent: 07 July 2018 16:39 To: Len Ovens;
> linux-audio-user Subject: Re: [LAU] Ubuntu 18.04 can't stop Jack from
> qjackctl
>
> "The problem (feature) with the debian jackd2 install of both jackd
> and jackdbus, is that if jack is not running and the user starts an
> application looking for jack, it will start jackd for them by default.
> then qjackctl will not be able to run jackdbus as normal."
>
> I have qjackctl as one of my Startup Applications, starts minimised
> to Tray but is always running well before I could even consider
> opening an audio application so this definitely isn't my issues. I've
> always worked like this.
>
> I didn't think you could change devices, or generally get any of the
> Settings you change to take affect, without Stopping and Starting the
> Jack Server again. Not actually really tested it though. I have two
> saved configs, one for my internal audio, one for my external
> interface. I'd usually - Stop, open Settings, select other Config,
> OK, Start - and everything would be good. Now it hangs when I hit
> Stop, or if it doesn't and looks to have stopped I don't believe it
> really has as I did a test and still got unbroken sound, which I know
> usually dies if I Stop Jack while something is playing through it.
>
> I've tried with the d-bus settings both enabled and disabled with no
> overall joy but have to admit I've always been confused into exactly
> what affect these really have on the system....
>
> Dale.
> ________________________________
> From: Linux-audio-user
> <linux-audio-user-***@lists.linuxaudio.org> on behalf of Len
> Ovens <***@ovenwerks.net> Sent: 07 July 2018 16:32 To:
> linux-audio-user Subject: Re: [LAU] Ubuntu 18.04 can't stop Jack from
> qjackctl
>
> On Sat, 7 Jul 2018, Dale Powell wrote:
>
> > Thanks for pointing out jack_control, I should have searched that
> > first rather than brute forcing it with the ugly commands I know.
>
> jackdbus, as I understand things, if a wrapper around jackd. It is
> however, very tightly coupled because it can do things like change the
> master device or sample rate (don't do that) without stopping jack.
> It may be that qjackctl is using this ability when you change
> devices. I have found that I can plugin a USB device and switch
> master to that device without stopping jack and most connections
> (except to system*) stay connetced and the clients don't notice
> anything. However that only seems to work once, trying to switch
> master twice (back to internal so I can pull the plug) seems to
> freeze jackdbus.
>
> certainly pulling the plug while jack is using a USB device has always
> been a problem for me though I know of others who have been able
> change master even after unplugging the device.
>
> I do not recall having this problem in the past. Something to look at
> in the code to see what is different from jackd 1.9.11 and 1.9.12.
>
> > package, not something that has always been like this on 18.04 for
> > me. When did you last do an apt upgrade?
>
> apt update shows: "All packages are up to date."
>
>
> --
> Len Ovens
> www.ovenwerks.net<http://www.ovenwerks.net>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
> Linux-audio-***@lists.linuxaudio.org
> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user


--
If you have a problem and you are not doing anything to fix it, you are
at the heart of the problem.
Chris Caudle
2018-07-07 23:10:53 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, July 7, 2018 11:39 am, Dale Powell wrote:
> I've tried with the d-bus settings both enabled and disabled with no
> overall joy but have to admit I've always been confused into exactly what
> affect these really have on the system....

I believe the setting "Enable D-Bus interface" is to control whether the
QJackControl application exposes D-Bus controls, and the "Enable JACK
D-Bus interface" controls whether the D-Bus enabled version of jackd is
started or the original non-D-bus version.

--
Chris Caudle
Len Ovens
2018-07-07 15:49:50 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 7 Jul 2018, Dale Powell wrote:

> Hi all.
>
> I've been using Ubuntu Studio since 14.04, always run with Jack as the main audio
> server and generally never had any issues. Upgraded to Ubuntu Studio 18.04 and
> everything was fine for some months but within the last week or so I can't get
> the Jack Server to Stop from within QJackCtl, the application just hangs, making
> it quite a pain to change between using my internal and external devices!
>
> Any idea what may be causing this or steps to fault find the issue?

I am running ubuntustudio 18.04 and have not had that issue. the first
thing to try is from the command line try:
jack_control stop
or:
jack_control exit
Either of which should also stop jackdbus. If these give you an error as
well, then jackdbus is the problem. if they work, the problem would be
with qjackctl itself.

--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
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