[LAU] GxPlugins.lv2, Wayland and X (Was: Re: Linux-audio-user Digest, Vol 140, Issue 9)

[Juha Siltala]

> Hmm, do they work on Ubuntu 18.04's Gnome3-based user interface
> running on top of Wayland (without X)?

AFAIK any X client will work in a Wayland session just fine, thanks to
XWayland.

JS

[David W. Jones]

On October 8, 2018 2:27:50 AM HST, Juha Siltala wrote:
>
> > Hmm, do they work on Ubuntu 18.04's Gnome3-based user interface
> > running on top of Wayland (without X)?
>
> AFAIK any X client will work in a Wayland session just fine, thanks to
> XWayland.
>
> JS

XFCE won't run on Ubuntu 18.04 unless you set Ubuntu to use X instead of Wayland. And it doesn't run reliably even then.

--
David W. Jones
***@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com

Sent from my Android device with F/LOSS K-9 Mail.

[Brent Busby]

"David W. Jones" <***@hawaii.rr.com> writes:

> On October 8, 2018 2:27:50 AM HST, Juha Siltala wrote:
>>
>> > Hmm, do they work on Ubuntu 18.04's Gnome3-based user interface
>> > running on top of Wayland (without X)?
>>
>> AFAIK any X client will work in a Wayland session just fine, thanks to
>> XWayland.

> XFCE won't run on Ubuntu 18.04 unless you set Ubuntu to use X instead
> of Wayland. And it doesn't run reliably even then.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's finding Ubuntu bionic to be,
um...not quite what you expect from LTS releases. I tried to migrate a
CUDA GPU machine to it for my employer, and found that due to
miscellaneous problems with Wayland, Gnome 3, systemd/DNS, etc., it was
necessary to revert to backups of the previous install. Just an
amazingly broken mess.

--
- Brent Busby + ===============================================
+ "The introduction of a new kind of music must
-- Studio -- + be shunned as imperiling the whole state, for
-- Amadeus/ -- + styles of music are never disturbed without
-- Keycorner -- + without affecting the most important political
-- Recording -- + institutions." --Plato, "Republic"
----------------+ ===============================================

[david]

On 10/08/2018 03:04 PM, Brent Busby wrote:
> "David W. Jones" <***@hawaii.rr.com> writes:
>
>> On October 8, 2018 2:27:50 AM HST, Juha Siltala wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hmm, do they work on Ubuntu 18.04's Gnome3-based user interface
>>>> running on top of Wayland (without X)?
>>>
>>> AFAIK any X client will work in a Wayland session just fine, thanks to
>>> XWayland.
>
>> XFCE won't run on Ubuntu 18.04 unless you set Ubuntu to use X instead
>> of Wayland. And it doesn't run reliably even then.
>
> I'm glad I'm not the only one who's finding Ubuntu bionic to be,
> um...not quite what you expect from LTS releases. I tried to migrate a
> CUDA GPU machine to it for my employer, and found that due to
> miscellaneous problems with Wayland, Gnome 3, systemd/DNS, etc., it was
> necessary to revert to backups of the previous install. Just an
> amazingly broken mess.

I tried doing Ubuntu's "upgrade to new distribution" thing on my wife's
laptop. It had worked perfectly when moving her from Ubuntu 14 to 16. It
cranked away, announced that it was done and ready to reboot. Rebooted
but had no working network connection. It appears that Ubuntu 18 decided
to use a whole new application for network manager, and upgrading in
place I guess couldn't be bothered to translate the existing network
configuration to the new application.

Doesn't quite seem like an LTS version to me, either.

--
David W. Jones
***@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 21:27:48 -1000, david wrote:
>Rebooted but had no working network connection. It appears that Ubuntu
>18 decided to use a whole new application for network manager, and
>upgrading in place I guess couldn't be bothered to translate the
>existing network configuration to the new application.

It's not just a symlink issue?

See
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2018-October/295396.html
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2018-October/295400.html

Btw. I've got no idea what a link is good for at all, other than being
a pain when systemd-nspawn without boot option.

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2018-October/295399.html

[David W. Jones]

On October 9, 2018 10:13:47 PM HST, Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 21:27:48 -1000, david wrote:
> >Rebooted but had no working network connection. It appears that
> Ubuntu
> >18 decided to use a whole new application for network manager, and
> >upgrading in place I guess couldn't be bothered to translate the
> >existing network configuration to the new application.
>
> It's not just a symlink issue?
>
> See
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2018-October/295396.html
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2018-October/295400.html
>
> Btw. I've got no idea what a link is good for at all, other than being
> a pain when systemd-nspawn without boot option.
>
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2018-October/295399.html

It was worse than that. There was no wired network device to get an IP on.

--
David W. Jones
***@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com

Sent from my Android device with F/LOSS K-9 Mail.

[Dale Powell]

________________________________
From: Linux-audio-user <linux-audio-user-***@lists.linuxaudio.org> on behalf of David W. Jones <***@hawaii.rr.com>
Sent: 09 October 2018 00:46
To: linux-audio-***@lists.linuxaudio.org
Subject: Re: [LAU] GxPlugins.lv2, Wayland and X (Was: Re: Linux-audio-user Digest, Vol 140, Issue 9)



On October 8, 2018 2:27:50 AM HST, Juha Siltala wrote:
>
> > Hmm, do they work on Ubuntu 18.04's Gnome3-based user interface
> > running on top of Wayland (without X)?
>
> AFAIK any X client will work in a Wayland session just fine, thanks to
> XWayland.
>
> JS

XFCE won't run on Ubuntu 18.04 unless you set Ubuntu to use X instead of Wayland. And it doesn't run reliably even then.

Xorg is the default, not Wayland, so you must have enabled Wayland to be using it at all (although it does come with it as shipped so you can do so at install I would assume.)

https://blog.ubuntu.com/2018/01/26/bionic-beaver-18-04-lts-to-use-xorg-by-default
[https://assets.ubuntu.com/v1/55a39964-ubuntublog-facebook.png]<https://blog.ubuntu.com/2018/01/26/bionic-beaver-18-04-lts-to-use-xorg-by-default>

Bionic Beaver 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default | Ubuntu blog<https://blog.ubuntu.com/2018/01/26/bionic-beaver-18-04-lts-to-use-xorg-by-default>
Bionic Beaver, the codename for the next Ubuntu LTS release, is due in April 2018 and will ship with both the traditional Xorg graphics stack as well as the newer Wayland based stack, but Xorg will be the default.
blog.ubuntu.com



But neither Xubuntu nor Ubuntu Studio, the two releases based on XFCE, come with Wayland. Not sure why you would be using it on an XFCE system at all.... The way things currently stand not sure I'd use it on anything but a KDE/Plasma install.

Biggest issue I had with Ubuntu Studio 18.04 is that no matter what I tried it seems to not be possible to use multiple monitors without graphical glitches. Plus there is an annoying bug in Thunar (but XFCE have just released a patch upstream, which I suspect will never make it to 18.04 as it's not a security patch) which can crash it if you use the tree view in side pane.

Personally I've just managed to get Manjaro to a usable state after tinkering for a while and think I'm going to stick with this distro for a bit now....

Dale.

[Len Ovens]

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018, Dale Powell wrote:

> But neither Xubuntu nor Ubuntu Studio, the two releases based on XFCE, come with
> Wayland. Not sure why you would be using it on an XFCE system at all.... The way
> things currently stand not sure I'd use it on anything but a KDE/Plasma install.

xfce works fine here. But I agree Plasma works well too. The only problem
I have had with plasma was that it comes with a wayland login choice and
in some DMs it is not labled that way and so the first Plasma login does
nothing (well seems to freeze my system... no wayland thanks)

BTW, I have installed Studio and then Plasma on top of it and been quite
happy with it.

> Biggest issue I had with Ubuntu Studio 18.04 is that no matter what I tried it
> seems to not be possible to use multiple monitors without graphical glitches.

Hmm another case of YMMV. I have used two screens with Studio since
forever and never had a problem. I do use Intel graphics though I have
used nvidia in the past both with open and closed drivers and have not had
trouble with multiple screens. xfce uses xrander based display managment
and could do more than it does I guess... there are times it would be nice
to make one screen "sticky" when moving through workspaces but I haven't
found that a problem.

> Plus there is an annoying bug in Thunar (but XFCE have just released a patch
> upstream, which I suspect will never make it to 18.04 as it's not a security
> patch) which can crash it if you use the tree view in side pane.

I guess I don't use tree view. However, I would still choose Thunar over
Nautilus which has been gnomed to death...

> Personally I've just managed to get Manjaro to a usable state after tinkering for
> a while and think I'm going to stick with this distro for a bit now....

Enjoy, I did try Majaro, I could make it work in a way I liked, but it was
much more work that either xfce or Plasma.

One of the "new" gnome-isms that I hate is thew take over of of the window
decorations. I tend to use many windows on any screen and I want to know
which window has focus. I look for a desktop theme where the window with
focus has a different colour than all others. Right now I am using orange
for focused and grey for unfocused. Any gnome app I use insists on a
grey title bar no matter what the theme is and merely makes the text
slightly greyer for unfocused. This forces one to use click to focus
instead of focus follows mouse (they still don't seem to have focus
follows mind for some reason) which makes things like copying from one
window in full view to a window partly covered hard to do.

Skinny window handles is another of complaint I have against many of the
newer desktop themes. The motif wm may be old and plain but it easy to
actually use.... though some of the old scroll bars took some getting used
to :) No I am not suggesting a return to motif or fvwm...

I do not know which software installer is normally used for debian
installs... but the old USC and the newer gnome software are both
something to run away from. Synaptic and Muon both seem to work fine.
(commandline programs are fine too) But the newer software installers have
worked hard to divorce the GUI from the back end so that they can work
with wayland... however they have not put in place any feedback
communication from the backend installer to tell you things like "hey we
are going to remove half your system so we can install this package you
have asked for" or "this package is asking a question, how would you like
to answer?" I have spent more time helping people restore/fix their system
after using a bad sw installer. Jack installs with no RT is also very
common too.

The short answer is that there is no reason to use Wayland unless you are
testing/working on it. There is no reason to use Wayland in the audio
world as all of your software will have to use Wayland's X translation to
run it. Good Audio plugins do not use QT or GTK or other dynamic library
based GUI's and so will not have wayland back ends. (This is probably true
for plugins for other kinds of sw as well... like gimp for example)

--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net

[Tim]

On 10/09/2018 11:42 AM, Len Ovens wrote:
> One of the "new" gnome-isms that I hate is thew take over of of the
> window decorations. I tend to use many windows on any screen and I want
> to know which window has focus. I look for a desktop theme where the
> window with focus has a different colour than all others. Right now I am
> using orange for focused and grey for unfocused. Any gnome app I use
> insists on a grey title bar no matter what the theme is and merely makes
> the text slightly greyer for unfocused. This forces one to use click to
> focus instead of focus follows mouse (they still don't seem to have
> focus follows mind for some reason) which makes things like copying from
> one window in full view to a window partly covered hard to do.
>
> Skinny window handles is another of complaint I have against many of the
> newer desktop themes. The motif wm may be old and plain but it easy to
> actually use.... though some of the old scroll bars took some getting
> used to  :)   No I am not suggesting a return to motif or fvwm...


Just a side comment: It can be useful, especially during design
and debuggging of an app, to know exactly which widget has the
keyboard focus - no matter how small or insignificant the widget.

I had found that the only WM ever to do this thoroughly and completely
was... the ancient TAB window manager.
TAB WM put a black rectangle around *any* widget that had the focus,
no exceptions, no matter what the widget.

I found it annoying but understandable that later WMs (themes actually)
didn't do that and typically only highlight widgets such as line
editors and so on. Some themes did a terrible job of highlighting
buttons and it was a real pain to ensure that all the various themed
buttons worked the way we wanted in our app.

[Colin Fletcher]

On 09/10/18 16:42, Len Ovens wrote:
> One of the "new" gnome-isms that I hate is thew take over of of the
> window decorations. I tend to use many windows on any screen and I want
> to know which window has focus. I look for a desktop theme where the
> window with focus has a different colour than all others. Right now I am
> using orange for focused and grey for unfocused. Any gnome app I use
> insists on a grey title bar no matter what the theme is and merely makes
> the text slightly greyer for unfocused. This forces one to use click to
> focus instead of focus follows mouse (they still don't seem to have
> focus follows mind for some reason) which makes things like copying from
> one window in full view to a window partly covered hard to do.

You can use libgtk3-nocss to make Gnome 3 apps use the window manager
theme under xfce (on Debian, at least: sudo apt install gtk3-nocsd).
It's also supposedly possible to add 'export GTK_CSD=0' to ~/.xsessionrc
to achieve the same result, though I haven't actually tried that.

Colin.

[Len Ovens]

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018, Colin Fletcher wrote:

> On 09/10/18 16:42, Len Ovens wrote:
>> One of the "new" gnome-isms that I hate is thew take over of of the
>> window decorations. I tend to use many windows on any screen and I want

> You can use libgtk3-nocss to make Gnome 3 apps use the window manager
> theme under xfce (on Debian, at least: sudo apt install gtk3-nocsd).
> It's also supposedly possible to add 'export GTK_CSD=0' to ~/.xsessionrc
> to achieve the same result, though I haven't actually tried that.

Thank you I will try that.


--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net

[Len Ovens]

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018, Colin Fletcher wrote:

> You can use libgtk3-nocss to make Gnome 3 apps use the window manager

I found libgtk3-nocsd0... hmm maybe I need the environment variable too.


--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net

[Len Ovens]

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018, Colin Fletcher wrote:

> On 09/10/18 16:42, Len Ovens wrote:
>> One of the "new" gnome-isms that I hate is thew take over of of the
>> window decorations. I tend to use many windows on any screen and I want
>> to know which window has focus. I look for a desktop theme where the
>> window with focus has a different colour than all others. Right now I am
>> using orange for focused and grey for unfocused. Any gnome app I use
>> insists on a grey title bar no matter what the theme is and merely makes
>> the text slightly greyer for unfocused. This forces one to use click to
>> focus instead of focus follows mouse (they still don't seem to have
>> focus follows mind for some reason) which makes things like copying from
>> one window in full view to a window partly covered hard to do.
>
> You can use libgtk3-nocss to make Gnome 3 apps use the window manager
> theme under xfce (on Debian, at least: sudo apt install gtk3-nocsd).
> It's also supposedly possible to add 'export GTK_CSD=0' to ~/.xsessionrc
> to achieve the same result, though I haven't actually tried that.

it is a little more complex than that. after installing gtk3-nocsd, go to
the upstream page: https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd and find the
directions in the README.md file. But then it works fine.

--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 18:37:19 -0700 (PDT), Len Ovens wrote:
>it is a little more complex than that. after installing gtk3-nocsd, go
>to the upstream page: https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd and find the
>directions in the README.md file. But then it works fine.

Even this is limited.

It works when e.g. running

$ gedit

but fails when e.g. running

$ gksudo gedit

;)

--
pacman -Q linux{,-rt{,-securityink,-pussytoes,-cornflower}}|cut -d\ -f2
4.18.12.arch1-1
4.18.12_rt7-1
4.18.7_rt5-1
4.18.5_rt3-1
4.16.18_rt12-1

[Hermann Meyer]

Am 11.10.18 um 09:16 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 18:37:19 -0700 (PDT), Len Ovens wrote:
>> it is a little more complex than that. after installing gtk3-nocsd, go
>> to the upstream page: https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd and find the
>> directions in the README.md file. But then it works fine.
> Even this is limited.
>
> It works when e.g. running
>
> $ gedit
>
> but fails when e.g. running
>
> $ gksudo gedit
>
> ;)
>

I ain't use gtk3-nocsd, but when running GUI apps as root, you need to
edit your .bashrc (|~/.xsession)| in the root directory to make it
affect the GUI. Ain't you?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:25:23 +0200, Hermann Meyer wrote:
>Am 11.10.18 um 09:16 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
>> On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 18:37:19 -0700 (PDT), Len Ovens wrote:
>>> it is a little more complex than that. after installing gtk3-nocsd,
>>> go to the upstream page: https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd and
>>> find the directions in the README.md file. But then it works fine.
>> Even this is limited.
>>
>> It works when e.g. running
>>
>> $ gedit
>>
>> but fails when e.g. running
>>
>> $ gksudo gedit
>>
>> ;)
>>
>
>I ain't use gtk3-nocsd, but when running GUI apps as root, you need to
>edit your .bashrc (|~/.xsession)| in the root directory to make it
>affect the GUI. Ain't you?

I've done this ;).

--
pacman -Q linux{,-rt{,-securityink,-pussytoes,-cornflower}}|cut -d\ -f2
4.18.12.arch1-1
4.18.12_rt7-1
4.18.7_rt5-1
4.18.5_rt3-1
4.16.18_rt12-1

[Len Ovens]

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 18:37:19 -0700 (PDT), Len Ovens wrote:
>> it is a little more complex than that. after installing gtk3-nocsd, go
>> to the upstream page: https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd and find the
>> directions in the README.md file. But then it works fine.
>
> Even this is limited.
>
> It works when e.g. running
>
> $ gedit
>
> but fails when e.g. running
>
> $ gksudo gedit

gedit is no loss, there are lots of replacements. Aside from which, going
back to wayland, gksudo won't run on wayland anyway. the editor should be
able to save by asking a password (according to wayland devs) anyway. It
is the few gnome utilities I have to use right now that anoy me. the pdf
viewer and glade are the two that often get me typing in the wrong window
because they are not obviously focused :P and this fixes that.

No I am not ready for the one screen one window new age of computing...

--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 08:19:10 -0700 (PDT), Len Ovens wrote:
>On Thu, 11 Oct 2018, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 18:37:19 -0700 (PDT), Len Ovens wrote:
>>> it is a little more complex than that. after installing gtk3-nocsd,
>>> go to the upstream page: https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd and
>>> find the directions in the README.md file. But then it works fine.
>>
>> Even this is limited.
>>
>> It works when e.g. running
>>
>> $ gedit
>>
>> but fails when e.g. running
>>
>> $ gksudo gedit
>
>gedit is no loss, there are lots of replacements. Aside from which,
>going back to wayland, gksudo won't run on wayland anyway. the editor
>should be able to save by asking a password (according to wayland
>devs) anyway. It is the few gnome utilities I have to use right now
>that anoy me. the pdf viewer and glade are the two that often get me
>typing in the wrong window because they are not obviously focused :P
>and this fixes that.
>
>No I am not ready for the one screen one window new age of computing...

I'm also not using gedit, it was juts the first app that came to mind,
to test gtk3-nocsd.

For PDFs I prefer atril over evince. In short, at the moment no GNOME
app at all comes to mind, that I might use sometimes.

--
pacman -Q linux{,-rt{,-securityink,-pussytoes,-cornflower}}|cut -d\ -f2
4.18.12.arch1-1
4.18.12_rt7-1
4.18.7_rt5-1
4.18.5_rt3-1
4.16.18_rt12-1

[Dominique Michel]

Le Tue, 9 Oct 2018 08:42:46 -0700 (PDT),
Len Ovens <***@ovenwerks.net> a écrit :

> Skinny window handles is another of complaint I have against many of
> the newer desktop themes. The motif wm may be old and plain but it
> easy to actually use.... though some of the old scroll bars took some
> getting used to :) No I am not suggesting a return to motif or
> fvwm...

I am using gentoo with fvwm-crystal in its svn version from years, and
is very happy with it. fvwm with the fvwm-crystal themes just work and
is never in my way. Also, the fvwm-crystal applications menu is the only
one I know that have full support for the additional categories of the
freedesktop menu norm (it is even better than the debian menu system
for that and just work out of the box), and it never appended I lost a
customization of that menu. These application menu concerns are the
main reason why I begun to use fvwm-crystal: I hate to redo what I have
already done, and I hate to do what should be done automatically by
desktops that pretend to follow the freedesktop normalisation.

Cheers,
Dominique

--
If you have a problem and you are not doing anything to fix it, you are
at the heart of the problem.

[Len Ovens]

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018, Dominique Michel wrote:

> Le Tue, 9 Oct 2018 08:42:46 -0700 (PDT),
> Len Ovens <***@ovenwerks.net> a écrit :
>
>> getting used to :) No I am not suggesting a return to motif or
>> fvwm...
>
> I am using gentoo with fvwm-crystal in its svn version from years, and
> is very happy with it. fvwm with the fvwm-crystal themes just work and

I always liked fvwm. I take it -crystal adds something to that. When I
last tried fvwm, The menu had to be hand rerolled after installing a new
application for it to appear in the menu, though the utility for doing so
did seem to get it right.

> is never in my way. Also, the fvwm-crystal applications menu is the only
> one I know that have full support for the additional categories of the
> freedesktop menu norm (it is even better than the debian menu system
> for that and just work out of the box), and it never appended I lost a
> customization of that menu. These application menu concerns are the
> main reason why I begun to use fvwm-crystal: I hate to redo what I have
> already done, and I hate to do what should be done automatically by
> desktops that pretend to follow the freedesktop normalisation.

gnome and xfce (which both use the same broken system menu config file) do
not work well and the menu editors that go with them are both not that
good. KDE's old style menu works quite well. (their menu config is
correct) It is unfortunate that the freeddesktop site has the same bad
file as an example on their web site though the following paragraphs make
it plain it wouldn't work.


--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net

[david]

On 10/08/2018 11:16 PM, Dale Powell wrote:

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Linux-audio-user <linux-audio-user-***@lists.linuxaudio.org>
> on behalf of David W. Jones <***@hawaii.rr.com>
> *Sent:* 09 October 2018 00:46
> *To:* linux-audio-***@lists.linuxaudio.org
> *Subject:* Re: [LAU] GxPlugins.lv2, Wayland and X (Was: Re:
> Linux-audio-user Digest, Vol 140, Issue 9)
>
>
> On October 8, 2018 2:27:50 AM HST, Juha Siltala wrote:
> >
> > > Hmm, do they work on Ubuntu 18.04's Gnome3-based user interface
> > > running on top of Wayland (without X)?
> >
> > AFAIK any X client will work in a Wayland session just fine, thanks to
> > XWayland.
> >
> > JS
>
> XFCE won't run on Ubuntu 18.04 unless you set Ubuntu to use X
> instead of Wayland. And it doesn't run reliably even then.
>
>
> Xorg is the default, not Wayland, so you must have enabled Wayland to be
> using it at all (although it does come with it as shipped so you can do
> so at install I would assume.)
>
> https://blog.ubuntu.com/2018/01/26/bionic-beaver-18-04-lts-to-use-xorg-by-default
> <https://blog.ubuntu.com/2018/01/26/bionic-beaver-18-04-lts-to-use-xorg-by-default>
>
> Bionic Beaver 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default | Ubuntu blog
> <https://blog.ubuntu.com/2018/01/26/bionic-beaver-18-04-lts-to-use-xorg-by-default>
> Bionic Beaver, the codename for the next Ubuntu LTS release, is due in
> April 2018 and will ship with both the traditional Xorg graphics stack
> as well as the newer Wayland based stack, but Xorg will be the default.
> blog.ubuntu.com

That's not what happened to me.

> But neither Xubuntu

There doesn't appear to be an XUbuntu release anymore.

> nor Ubuntu Studio, the two releases based on XFCE,
> come with Wayland. Not sure why you would be using it on an XFCE system
> at all.... The way things currently stand not sure I'd use it on
> anything but a KDE/Plasma install.

I downloaded the 18.04.1 LTS, installed it over my existing 16.04 LTS
installation. It never prompted me about choosing between Wayland or X.

When I added XFCE4 to it after 18.04.1 was successfully installed, XFCE
either wouldn't start or it would freeze up. It still doesn't get along
with the Gnome3 privacy screen, either.

I found this post:

https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-disable-wayland-and-enable-xorg-display-server-on-ubuntu-18-04-bionic-beaver-linux

Where it states that the default Ubuntu 18.04 BB installation comes with
Wayland enabled, and you need to disable Wayland to use X instead.

And here's a post about XFCE transitioning to Wayland:

https://www.reddit.com/r/xfce/comments/73gihm/are_there_any_plans_for_xfce_on_wayland/

Not encouraging.

--
David W. Jones
***@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com

[Dale Powell]

On 10/08/2018 11:16 PM, Dale Powell wrote:

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Linux-audio-user <linux-audio-user-***@lists.linuxaudio.org>
> on behalf of David W. Jones <***@hawaii.rr.com>
> *Sent:* 09 October 2018 00:46
> *To:* linux-audio-***@lists.linuxaudio.org
> *Subject:* Re: [LAU] GxPlugins.lv2, Wayland and X (Was: Re:
> Linux-audio-user Digest, Vol 140, Issue 9)
>
>
> On October 8, 2018 2:27:50 AM HST, Juha Siltala wrote:
> >
> > > Hmm, do they work on Ubuntu 18.04's Gnome3-based user interface
> > > running on top of Wayland (without X)?
> >
> > AFAIK any X client will work in a Wayland session just fine, thanks to
> > XWayland.
> >
> > JS
>
> XFCE won't run on Ubuntu 18.04 unless you set Ubuntu to use X
> instead of Wayland. And it doesn't run reliably even then.
>
>
> Xorg is the default, not Wayland, so you must have enabled Wayland to be
> using it at all (although it does come with it as shipped so you can do
> so at install I would assume.)
>
> https://blog.ubuntu.com/2018/01/26/bionic-beaver-18-04-lts-to-use-xorg-by-default
> <https://blog.ubuntu.com/2018/01/26/bionic-beaver-18-04-lts-to-use-xorg-by-default>
>
> Bionic Beaver 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default | Ubuntu blog
> <https://blog.ubuntu.com/2018/01/26/bionic-beaver-18-04-lts-to-use-xorg-by-default>
> Bionic Beaver, the codename for the next Ubuntu LTS release, is due in
> April 2018 and will ship with both the traditional Xorg graphics stack
> as well as the newer Wayland based stack, but Xorg will be the default.
> blog.ubuntu.com

That's not what happened to me.

> But neither Xubuntu

There doesn't appear to be an XUbuntu release anymore.

Same place it's always been.
https://xubuntu.org/download#lts
Download Xubuntu « Xubuntu<https://xubuntu.org/download#lts>
The 18.04 release, codenamed Bionic Beaver, is a Long Term Support release and has support for 3 years. To learn more about the release, please refer to the release announcement, which has links to complete release notes as well as highlights of the improvements in the release. If you don’t know ...
xubuntu.org




> nor Ubuntu Studio, the two releases based on XFCE,
> come with Wayland. Not sure why you would be using it on an XFCE system
> at all.... The way things currently stand not sure I'd use it on
> anything but a KDE/Plasma install.

I downloaded the 18.04.1 LTS, installed it over my existing 16.04 LTS
installation. It never prompted me about choosing between Wayland or X.

When I added XFCE4 to it after 18.04.1 was successfully installed, XFCE
either wouldn't start or it would freeze up. It still doesn't get along
with the Gnome3 privacy screen, either.

I found this post:

https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-disable-wayland-and-enable-xorg-display-server-on-ubuntu-18-04-bionic-beaver-linux

Where it states that the default Ubuntu 18.04 BB installation comes with
Wayland enabled, and you need to disable Wayland to use X instead.

I would have been more inclined to believe the official Ubuntu Blog post but if that wasn't your experience how can I argue. I've only installed the Studio and the Xubuntu versions of 18.04 which I'm pretty sure were Xorg...

And here's a post about XFCE transitioning to Wayland:

https://www.reddit.com/r/xfce/comments/73gihm/are_there_any_plans_for_xfce_on_wayland/

Not encouraging.

That's from when 17.10 was coming out with Wayland, and from what I read was a bit of a failure, hence why they're back on Xorg...


--
David W. Jones
***@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com

[Dale Powell]

> nor Ubuntu Studio, the two releases based on XFCE,
> come with Wayland. Not sure why you would be using it on an XFCE system
> at all.... The way things currently stand not sure I'd use it on
> anything but a KDE/Plasma install.

I downloaded the 18.04.1 LTS, installed it over my existing 16.04 LTS
installation. It never prompted me about choosing between Wayland or X.

When I added XFCE4 to it after 18.04.1 was successfully installed, XFCE
either wouldn't start or it would freeze up. It still doesn't get along
with the Gnome3 privacy screen, either.

I found this post:

https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-disable-wayland-and-enable-xorg-display-server-on-ubuntu-18-04-bionic-beaver-linux

Where it states that the default Ubuntu 18.04 BB installation comes with
Wayland enabled, and you need to disable Wayland to use X instead.

I would have been more inclined to believe the official Ubuntu Blog post but if that wasn't your experience how can I argue. I've only installed the Studio and the Xubuntu versions of 18.04 which I'm pretty sure were Xorg...


And the official Ubuntu Wiki also says Xorg is the default, you have to select/enable Wayland.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes#Ubuntu_Desktop
BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes - Ubuntu Wiki<https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes#Ubuntu_Desktop>
Introduction. These release notes for Ubuntu 18.04.1 LTS (Bionic Beaver) provide an overview of the release and document the known issues with Ubuntu 18.04 LTS and its flavors. For details of the changes applied since 18.04, please see the 18.04.1 change summary.The release notes for 18.04 are available as well.. Support lifespan. The 'main' archive of Ubuntu 18.04 LTS will be supported for 5 ...
wiki.ubuntu.com

[david]

On 10/10/2018 01:19 AM, Dale Powell wrote:
>
>
> > nor Ubuntu Studio, the two releases based on XFCE,
> > come with Wayland. Not sure why you would be using it on an XFCE system
> > at all.... The way things currently stand not sure I'd use it on
> > anything but a KDE/Plasma install.
>
> I downloaded the 18.04.1 LTS, installed it over my existing 16.04 LTS
> installation. It never prompted me about choosing between Wayland or X.
>
> When I added XFCE4 to it after 18.04.1 was successfully installed, XFCE
> either wouldn't start or it would freeze up. It still doesn't get along
> with the Gnome3 privacy screen, either.
>
> I found this post:
>
> https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-disable-wayland-and-enable-xorg-display-server-on-ubuntu-18-04-bionic-beaver-linux
>
> Where it states that the default Ubuntu 18.04 BB installation comes
> with
> Wayland enabled, and you need to disable Wayland to use X instead.
>
> I would have been more inclined to believe the official Ubuntu Blog post
> but if that wasn't your experience how can I argue. I've only installed
> the Studio and the Xubuntu versions of 18.04 which I'm pretty sure were
> Xorg...
>
>
> And the official Ubuntu Wiki also says Xorg is the default, you have to
> select/enable Wayland.
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes#Ubuntu_Desktop
> BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes - Ubuntu Wiki
> <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes#Ubuntu_Desktop>
> Introduction. These release notes for Ubuntu 18.04.1 LTS (Bionic Beaver)
> provide an overview of the release and document the known issues with
> Ubuntu 18.04 LTS and its flavors. For details of the changes applied
> since 18.04, please see the 18.04.1 change summary.The release notes for
> 18.04 are available as well.. Support lifespan. The 'main' archive of
> Ubuntu 18.04 LTS will be supported for 5 ...
> wiki.ubuntu.com

Followup. Xubuntu 18.04.1 LTS successfully installed on my laptop,
without any Wayland/Xorg switchery although Ubuntu's Software Updater
doesn't seem to exist on Xubuntu. Added the KXStudio repositories and
now have a successful Ubuntu 18 music setup. :)

--
David W. Jones
***@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com

[Chris Caudle]

On Wed, October 10, 2018 6:16 am, Dale Powell wrote:
> I found this post:
> https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-disable-wayland-and-enable-xorg-display-server-on-ubuntu-18-04-bionic-beaver-linux
>
> Where it states that the default Ubuntu 18.04 BB installation comes with
> Wayland enabled, and you need to disable Wayland to use X instead.

It seems Canonical made things way more difficult than it should be.
On Fedora there is a settings button where you select or enter your user
name on the gdm login screen. There you can select Gnome (defaults to
Wayland), Gnome on Xorg, KDE Plasma (defaults to Xorg), KDE Plasma on
Wayland, and if you have other desktop environments those have menu
entries as well. There should be no need to disable either xorg or
wayland, the system should be able to start the correct environment when
needed. My system goes back and forth, I typically use Plasma on Xorg,
one of my kids used to use Gnome on Wayland, but some game didn't handle
graphics correctly on Wayland so switched back to Gnome on Xorg. The
screen goes blank for about a quarter or half second when switching back
and forth between a Wayland desktop and an Xorg desktop, but that is the
only noticeable effect.

--
Chris Caudle

[Len Ovens]

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018, Chris Caudle wrote:

> On Wed, October 10, 2018 6:16 am, Dale Powell wrote:
>> I found this post:
>> https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-disable-wayland-and-enable-xorg-display-server-on-ubuntu-18-04-bionic-beaver-linux
>>
>> Where it states that the default Ubuntu 18.04 BB installation comes with
>> Wayland enabled, and you need to disable Wayland to use X instead.
>
> It seems Canonical made things way more difficult than it should be.
> On Fedora there is a settings button where you select or enter your user
> name on the gdm login screen. There you can select Gnome (defaults to
> Wayland), Gnome on Xorg, KDE Plasma (defaults to Xorg), KDE Plasma on
> Wayland, and if you have other desktop environments those have menu

That does seem to be the way kubuntu is set up... but only if SDM is used.
If you happen to be using lightdm, which seems to be default for xubuntu,
and ubuntustudio (and maybe others) the "(wayland)" doesn't show up... So
there are two Plasma entries exactly the same... the first is the wayland
entry which freezes the system. I switched to sdm... problem solved.

However, the real answer is still that the audio community is not ready
for wayland anyway.... and it seems wayland is not ready, in at least many
cases, to even log in.


--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net