[LAU] M-Audio Fast Track Pro: unreliable, distorted recording

[Lewis Pike]

I'm the (un?)lucky owner of an M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB audio
interface and I'm having some serious problems getting this device to
record audio reliably under Linux.

I've been using arecord and occasionally Audacity for all of my
testing. My problem is this: Recording a take works about 80% of the
time. In the remaining ~20% of cases, the captured audio is extremely
loud with severe digital distortion. Once this problem shows up, it
persists for any subsequent takes. The only way I've found to make
the problem go away, at least temporarily, is to power-cycle the Fast
Track Pro.

I considered the possibility that this particular device might be
defective, but it seems to work wonderfully under Windows.

I'm calling out to other Fast Track Pro users in the hope that someone
out there has encountered the same problem and better still, found a
solution.

Any suggestions at all would be greatly appreciated!

.lewis

[Guillaume Pellerin]

Hi Lewis,

I'm a contributor of the driver for this card in the Linux kernel and it works
very well for me. You should maybe tune your ALSA setup for this.

First, what is your kernel version?

Guillaume

On 29/01/2014 03:44, Lewis Pike wrote:
> I'm the (un?)lucky owner of an M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB audio
> interface and I'm having some serious problems getting this device to
> record audio reliably under Linux.
>
> I've been using arecord and occasionally Audacity for all of my
> testing. My problem is this: Recording a take works about 80% of the
> time. In the remaining ~20% of cases, the captured audio is extremely
> loud with severe digital distortion. Once this problem shows up, it
> persists for any subsequent takes. The only way I've found to make
> the problem go away, at least temporarily, is to power-cycle the Fast
> Track Pro.
>
> I considered the possibility that this particular device might be
> defective, but it seems to work wonderfully under Windows.
>
> I'm calling out to other Fast Track Pro users in the hope that someone
> out there has encountered the same problem and better still, found a
> solution.
>
> Any suggestions at all would be greatly appreciated!
>
> .lewis
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
> Linux-audio-***@lists.linuxaudio.org
> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>
>

[Todd Bateman]

On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 01:13:35PM +0100, Guillaume Pellerin wrote:
> Hi Lewis,
>
> I'm a contributor of the driver for this card in the Linux kernel
> and it works very well for me. You should maybe tune your ALSA setup
> for this.
>
> First, what is your kernel version?
>
> Guillaume

Guillaume!

Your help with this is hugely appreciated! The fact that you're not
seeing the same issue gives me hope that a solution exists.

My current kernel version is 3.12.7. I first attempted to use the
Fast Track Pro for audio capture three years ago, around version
2.6.37 but I ran into the same problem.

.lewis

[Lewis Pike]

On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 09:05:46AM -0500, Lewis Pike wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 01:13:35PM +0100, Guillaume Pellerin wrote:
> > Hi Lewis,
> >
> > I'm a contributor of the driver for this card in the Linux kernel
> > and it works very well for me. You should maybe tune your ALSA
> > setup for this.
> >
> > First, what is your kernel version?
> >
> > Guillaume
>
> Guillaume!
>
> Your help with this is hugely appreciated! The fact that you're not
> seeing the same issue gives me hope that a solution exists.
>
> My current kernel version is 3.12.7. I first attempted to use the
> Fast Track Pro for audio capture three years ago, around version
> 2.6.37 but I ran into the same problem.
>
> .lewis

Hi Guillaume,

I've been continuing to test the Fast Track Pro, trying to identify a
solution to my problem, but unfortunately I haven't had any success
thus far. I made a post on the alsa-user mailing list [1] but it
hasn't generated any interest. As a contributor to the driver of for
this device, can you recommend another forum where I might be able to
find some help? Much obliged!

.lewis

[1] http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.alsa.user/38146

[Guillaume Pellerin]

Hi!

On 03/02/2014 16:17, Lewis Pike wrote:
>
> Hi Guillaume,
>
> I've been continuing to test the Fast Track Pro, trying to identify a
> solution to my problem, but unfortunately I haven't had any success
> thus far. I made a post on the alsa-user mailing list [1] but it
> hasn't generated any interest. As a contributor to the driver of for
> this device, can you recommend another forum where I might be able to
> find some help? Much obliged!
>

Sorry Lewis, I was AFK these days. Back now :)

Can you try to add this line to /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf

options snd_usb_audio vid=0x763 pid=0x2012 device_setup=0x03 enable=1 nrpacks=1

and then:
$ sudo modprobe -r snd-usb-audio
$ sudo modprobe snd-usb-audio

un/replug the card and make your tests again.

I must admit I've almost always use the FTP with JACK so I'm not completly aware
of the behavior of the device without it.

If this has no (good) effect, it could be something between you USB system and
the kernel. I've discover recently that crackles could raise up on other cards
and systems because of a dynamic USB ID allocation of the kernel. The pb
disappeared when the option is switched off.

So, let's continue if the first ALSA tweak doesn't work..

Regards,
Guillaume

[Lewis Pike]

Hi Guillaume,

On Tue, Feb 04, 2014 at 06:29:28PM +0100, Guillaume Pellerin wrote:
> Sorry Lewis, I was AFK these days. Back now :)
>
> Can you try to add this line to /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf
>
> options snd_usb_audio vid=0x763 pid=0x2012 device_setup=0x03 enable=1 nrpacks=1
>
> and then:
> $ sudo modprobe -r snd-usb-audio
> $ sudo modprobe snd-usb-audio

I added your suggested kernel module option line and rebooted my
system for good measure.

$ cat /proc/asound/card0/stream0 # now gives:
M-Audio FastTrack Pro at usb-0000:00:1d.0-2, full speed : USB Audio

Playback:
Status: Stop
Interface 2
Altset 2
Format: S24_3BE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 3 OUT (ADAPTIVE)
Rates: 44100, 48000
Interface 2
Altset 5
Format: S24_3BE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 3 OUT (ADAPTIVE)
Rates: 8000 - 48000 (continuous)

$ cat /proc/asound/card0/stream1 # now gives:
M-Audio FastTrack Pro at usb-0000:00:1d.0-2, full speed : USB Audio #1

Playback:
Status: Stop
Interface 3
Altset 2
Format: S24_3BE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 4 OUT (ADAPTIVE)
Rates: 44100, 48000
Interface 3
Altset 5
Format: S24_3BE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 4 OUT (ADAPTIVE)
Rates: 8000 - 48000 (continuous)

Capture:
Status: Stop
Interface 4
Altset 2
Format: S24_3BE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 5 IN (SYNC)
Rates: 8000 - 48000 (continuous)

I've also updated my arecord test command to account for the the
S24_3BE format:

arecord -t raw -f S24_3BE -c2 -r 48000 -D hw:0,1 -vv | aplay -f S24_3BE -c2 -r 48000 -D hw:0,0

Unfortunately, I am still getting bad captures in about ~10% of my
test cases. I have noticed a slightly different problem in this
configuration: about half of the bad captures are not just a distorted
signal, but instead very loud pure white noise. My ears are still
ringing!

> un/replug the card and make your tests again.
>
> I must admit I've almost always use the FTP with JACK so I'm not
> completly aware of the behavior of the device without it.
>
> If this has no (good) effect, it could be something between you USB
> system and the kernel. I've discover recently that crackles could
> raise up on other cards and systems because of a dynamic USB ID
> allocation of the kernel. The pb disappeared when the option is
> switched off.
>
> So, let's continue if the first ALSA tweak doesn't work..
>
> Regards,
> Guillaume
>

No luck so far, and the mystery continues. Are there specific kernel
configuration options which you would advise disabling? Here is a
snippet from my current /proc/config.gz which shows some settings
related to USB:

# --------------------------------------------
#
# Miscellaneous USB options
#
CONFIG_USB_DEFAULT_PERSIST=y
CONFIG_USB_DYNAMIC_MINORS=y
# CONFIG_USB_OTG is not set
CONFIG_USB_MON=m
CONFIG_USB_WUSB=m
CONFIG_USB_WUSB_CBAF=m
# CONFIG_USB_WUSB_CBAF_DEBUG is not set
# --------------------------------------------

Again, your help on this one is much appreciated!

.lewis

[James Harkins]

Guillaume Pellerin <***@...> writes:

> I'm a contributor of the driver for this card in the Linux kernel and it works
> very well for me. You should maybe tune your ALSA setup for this.
>
> First, what is your kernel version?

Hm... I'm keeping an eye on this thread, because I have the same problem
with a Fast Track Pro.

It's less of an inconvenience for me, because in my environment, mic input
goes through JACK. Sometimes, after starting JACK, the mic is horribly
distorted, but once I get a good connection to the FTPro, then it remains
stable as long as JACK is alive. So, I've been able to work around it by
testing the microphone in my pre-performance check, but it would be nice if
it Just Worked.

$ uname -a
Linux dlm-A6200 3.2.0-58-lowlatency #60-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT Tue Dec 10
05:16:26 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

ALSA: 1.0.25+dfsg-0ubuntu10.2
jackd2: 1.9.8~dfsg.1-1ubuntu2

hjh

[Todd Bateman]

On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 01:34:21AM +0000, James Harkins wrote:
> Hm... I'm keeping an eye on this thread, because I have the same
> problem with a Fast Track Pro.
>
> It's less of an inconvenience for me, because in my environment, mic
> input goes through JACK. Sometimes, after starting JACK, the mic is
> horribly distorted, but once I get a good connection to the FTPro,
> then it remains stable as long as JACK is alive. So, I've been able
> to work around it by testing the microphone in my pre-performance
> check, but it would be nice if it Just Worked.

This is actually encouraging, as it is the first time I've heard from
someone else who is experiencing a similar problem with the Fast Track
Pro.

.lewis

[Jeremy Jongepier]

On 01/29/2014 03:44 AM, Lewis Pike wrote:
> The only way I've found to make
> the problem go away, at least temporarily, is to power-cycle the Fast
> Track Pro.

Hello Lewis,

Maybe resetting the JACK buffersize helps, you can do this with
jack_bufsize on the command line. Without an option it will prompt the
current buffer size, if you then run jack_bufsize with that value the
situation might improve. Or you could first use a higher value and then
switch back to the former lower value.

Best,

Jeremy

[Lewis Pike]

On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 10:04:37AM +0100, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
> Maybe resetting the JACK buffersize helps, you can do this with
> jack_bufsize on the command line. Without an option it will prompt
> the current buffer size, if you then run jack_bufsize with that
> value the situation might improve. Or you could first use a higher
> value and then switch back to the former lower value.

Hi Jeremy,

Thanks for your help here; it's much appreciated. I actually don't
have JACK installed. I've really only been using a single application
at a time so my needs at this stage are rather modest. I figured the
added layer of abstraction offered by JACK would only complicate my
troubleshooting.

I'm really only speculating here, but it seems like the ALSA drivers
are sometimes improperly initializing the Fast Track Pro. Why this
happens only some of the time is strange indeed.

.lewis

[Guillaume Pellerin]

On 30/01/2014 15:14, Lewis Pike wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 10:04:37AM +0100, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
>> Maybe resetting the JACK buffersize helps, you can do this with
>> jack_bufsize on the command line. Without an option it will prompt
>> the current buffer size, if you then run jack_bufsize with that
>> value the situation might improve. Or you could first use a higher
>> value and then switch back to the former lower value.
>
> Hi Jeremy,
>
> Thanks for your help here; it's much appreciated. I actually don't
> have JACK installed. I've really only been using a single application
> at a time so my needs at this stage are rather modest. I figured the
> added layer of abstraction offered by JACK would only complicate my
> troubleshooting.
>
> I'm really only speculating here, but it seems like the ALSA drivers
> are sometimes improperly initializing the Fast Track Pro. Why this
> happens only some of the time is strange indeed.
>

Trying with JACK could help us a lot about this bug.

Thanks
G

[Guillaume Pellerin]

Hi Lewis,

I know I'm late again, sorry >
> No luck so far, and the mystery continues. Are there specific kernel
> configuration options which you would advise disabling? Here is a
> snippet from my current /proc/config.gz which shows some settings
> related to USB:
>
> # --------------------------------------------
> #
> # Miscellaneous USB options
> #
> CONFIG_USB_DEFAULT_PERSIST=y
> CONFIG_USB_DYNAMIC_MINORS=y

yes, try:
CONFIG_USB_DYNAMIC_MINORS is not set
CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND is not set

Guillaume

[Guillaume Pellerin]

Hi Lewis,

Anything new with your tests? Did you try the kernel parameters below?

G

On 21/02/2014 23:20, Guillaume Pellerin wrote:
> Hi Lewis,
>
> I know I'm late again, sorry >
>> No luck so far, and the mystery continues. Are there specific kernel
>> configuration options which you would advise disabling? Here is a
>> snippet from my current /proc/config.gz which shows some settings
>> related to USB:
>>
>> # --------------------------------------------
>> #
>> # Miscellaneous USB options
>> #
>> CONFIG_USB_DEFAULT_PERSIST=y
>> CONFIG_USB_DYNAMIC_MINORS=y
>
> yes, try:
> CONFIG_USB_DYNAMIC_MINORS is not set
> CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND is not set
>
> Guillaume
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
> Linux-audio-***@lists.linuxaudio.org
> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>
>

[Morten H]

> yes, try:
> CONFIG_USB_DYNAMIC_MINORS is not set
> CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND is not set
> Guillaume

I have searched for a long time for other people who have this problem, and
this is the only place I have found an exact description of what I am
experiencing:

Lewis Pike's problems with his M-Audio Fast Track Pro match mine almost
exactly.

When I connect the FTP in order to record (just ordinary S16_LE, 48000KHz,
stereo), one of three things happen: Either it just works, or I get an
accompanying hiss or crackling sound, following the recorded material in
intensity, or I just get insane noise that drowns out everything. The three
cases occur equally often more or less, but it's hard to tell.

In the second case (the one with the crackling sound) I have tried dumping
the recorded data to see if I could discover any pattern, and apparently the
most and least significant bytes are always equal for all samples. This
problem can occur at any time by the way, for example after a couple of
successful recordings, suddenly I get one with the crackle problem. This is
maybe the most annoying thing, the fact that I can't reconnect the FTP until
it works, and then rely on it to continue working.

I record with arecord, doing something like this: arecord -D hw:1,1 -d 3 -c
2 -r 48000 -f S16_LE test.wav

After reading this thread, I tried loading the usb audio module with
modprobe snd_usb_audio vid=0x0763 pid=0x2012 device_setup=0x03 enable=1
nrpacks=1

And then recorded something with arecord -D hw:1,1 -d 3 -c 2 -r 48000 -f
S24_3BE -t raw test.raw

And I get exactly the same result Lewis Pike described: Sometimes it works,
and I get a perfect 24bit recording, and sometimes I just get loud white
noise.

I have checked the kernel options, but I don't have either
CONFIG_USB_DYNAMIC_MINORS, or CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND enabled, though I can't
find CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND at all in my kernel. I'm using kernel version
3.12.13 by the way.

I really hope somebody can help with this, beause the FTP is completely
useless to me as it is.

Thanks in advance,
Morten Højer
Denmark



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[david]

On 04/17/2014 04:50 AM, Morten H wrote:
>> yes, try:
>> CONFIG_USB_DYNAMIC_MINORS is not set
>> CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND is not set
>> Guillaume
>
> I have searched for a long time for other people who have this problem, and
> this is the only place I have found an exact description of what I am
> experiencing:
>
> Lewis Pike's problems with his M-Audio Fast Track Pro match mine almost
> exactly.
>
> When I connect the FTP in order to record (just ordinary S16_LE, 48000KHz,
> stereo), one of three things happen: Either it just works, or I get an
> accompanying hiss or crackling sound, following the recorded material in
> intensity, or I just get insane noise that drowns out everything. The three
> cases occur equally often more or less, but it's hard to tell.
>
> In the second case (the one with the crackling sound) I have tried dumping
> the recorded data to see if I could discover any pattern, and apparently the
> most and least significant bytes are always equal for all samples. This
> problem can occur at any time by the way, for example after a couple of
> successful recordings, suddenly I get one with the crackle problem. This is
> maybe the most annoying thing, the fact that I can't reconnect the FTP until
> it works, and then rely on it to continue working.
>
> I record with arecord, doing something like this: arecord -D hw:1,1 -d 3 -c
> 2 -r 48000 -f S16_LE test.wav
>
> After reading this thread, I tried loading the usb audio module with
> modprobe snd_usb_audio vid=0x0763 pid=0x2012 device_setup=0x03 enable=1
> nrpacks=1
>
> And then recorded something with arecord -D hw:1,1 -d 3 -c 2 -r 48000 -f
> S24_3BE -t raw test.raw
>
> And I get exactly the same result Lewis Pike described: Sometimes it works,
> and I get a perfect 24bit recording, and sometimes I just get loud white
> noise.
>
> I have checked the kernel options, but I don't have either
> CONFIG_USB_DYNAMIC_MINORS, or CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND enabled, though I can't
> find CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND at all in my kernel. I'm using kernel version
> 3.12.13 by the way.
>
> I really hope somebody can help with this, beause the FTP is completely
> useless to me as it is.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Morten Højer
> Denmark

Have you eliminated the possibility of intermittent hardware issues with
the FTP? The symptoms suggest that to me.

--
David W. Jones
***@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com

[Morten H]

david-602 wrote
> Have you eliminated the possibility of intermittent hardware issues with
> the FTP? The symptoms suggest that to me.

I'm not sure what you mean. If you are suggesting that my FTP may be
defective, that is of course a possibility. But firstly the issues I'm
having correspond with the issues the original poster had, and secondly it
works perfectly in windows with the m-audio driver.

These two things put together suggest it is not a hardware problem with my
FTP... At least they do to me :-)

Morten



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[david]

On 04/17/2014 03:04 PM, Morten H wrote:
> david-602 wrote
>> Have you eliminated the possibility of intermittent hardware issues with
>> the FTP? The symptoms suggest that to me.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean. If you are suggesting that my FTP may be
> defective, that is of course a possibility. But firstly the issues I'm
> having correspond with the issues the original poster had, and secondly it
> works perfectly in windows with the m-audio driver.
>
> These two things put together suggest it is not a hardware problem with my
> FTP... At least they do to me :-)
>
> Morten

Well, intermittent means to me that it's just good enough that it works
most of the time, or fails only under special conditions. But sounds
like your card's probably OK. (Or there are things the Windows driver
does with the hardware that the Linux driver doesn't - control register
settings, work around for known-to-vendor-but-not-necessarily-documented
quirk, like "Don't set bit 7 of this register".)

Not that you have this problem, but I discovered that my powered
external USB2 hub induces noise when my USB sound card runs through it.
No noise at all when the card is connected directly. Probably my hub (a
cheap one) has grounding issues.

--
David W. Jones
***@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com

[MartinF]

I know this post is old, but has a solution been found?

I have the exact same problem. I have seen some posts reporting this issue,
but no solution. The card works well in Windows.



David Jones wrote
> On 04/17/2014 03:04 PM, Morten H wrote:
>> david-602 wrote
>>> Have you eliminated the possibility of intermittent hardware issues with
>>> the FTP? The symptoms suggest that to me.
>>
>> I'm not sure what you mean. If you are suggesting that my FTP may be
>> defective, that is of course a possibility. But firstly the issues I'm
>> having correspond with the issues the original poster had, and secondly
>> it
>> works perfectly in windows with the m-audio driver.
>>
>> These two things put together suggest it is not a hardware problem with
>> my
>> FTP... At least they do to me :-)
>>
>> Morten





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[Ketil Thorgersen]

Dear gurus (and others)

This is perhaps beating a dead horse, but I try....

I post here every fourth year or so, but now I need help from someone
more knowledgeable than me again. I have used the Fast Track Ultra 8r
for some time without really using it for anything serious. There have
been some clicks, pops and static noises, but I have assumed it was
something with my computer and did not bother to bother.

But the other day my band did a recording session on it and it then
became evident that it is completely useless as it works now: I am on
Ubuntu Studio 16.04 with rt kernel on the studio machine, but for
testing I have now tried it on two other linux machines - one with an
updated Manjaro system and one with an older Lubuntu. The noise is on
all these machines. I suspected grounding so I detached the one laptop
from the power, tried changing power sockets, USB cables, USB sockets
and so forth, but no change. I then tried to install the drivers in OSX
on the laptop - and voila - completely silent. I then tried to install
the driver in windows on the Lubuntu stationary and - silent.

The noise starts as soon as linux initiates the sound-card during
startup and even if it changes depending on which settings I choose in
Jack etc it never goes away.

I have of course searched the internet for possible solutions but have
found none that works. Since it is silent under windows and osx there
has to be something with how Linux treats the card - either it is the
drivers (it is supposed to be class compliant though) or something with
thee USB treatment overall.

So - dear clever people: Should I abandon the card or do you have some
ideas for a possible solution for me?

All the best!

Ketil


Den 2017-10-25 05:42, skrev MartinF:
> I know this post is old, but has a solution been found?
>
> I have the exact same problem. I have seen some posts reporting this issue,
> but no solution. The card works well in Windows.
>
>
>
> David Jones wrote
>> On 04/17/2014 03:04 PM, Morten H wrote:
>>> david-602 wrote
>>>> Have you eliminated the possibility of intermittent hardware issues with
>>>> the FTP? The symptoms suggest that to me.
>>> I'm not sure what you mean. If you are suggesting that my FTP may be
>>> defective, that is of course a possibility. But firstly the issues I'm
>>> having correspond with the issues the original poster had, and secondly
>>> it
>>> works perfectly in windows with the m-audio driver.
>>>
>>> These two things put together suggest it is not a hardware problem with
>>> my
>>> FTP... At least they do to me :-)
>>>
>>> Morten
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://linux-audio.4202.n7.nabble.com/linux-audio-user-f5.html
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
> Linux-audio-***@lists.linuxaudio.org
> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user

[Christopher Arndt]

Am 02.08.2018 um 11:29 schrieb Ketil Thorgersen:
> So - dear clever people: Should I abandon the card or do you have some
> ideas for a possible solution for me?

Depends on what is more valuable to you: your time or a few hundred
bucks for a new interface. Nowadays there is quite a choice of midprice
USB audio interfaces, which work with Linux without hassle.

My experience with M-Audio interfaces (I have a Fast Track Pro) on Linux
is also that it's driver seems to not work correctly too often.

For a band I would take a look at the MIDAS MR18, for example. It can
also replace your mixer (because it is one).


Chris

[Ketil Thorgersen]

Den 2018-08-02 13:42, skrev Christopher Arndt:
> Am 02.08.2018 um 11:29 schrieb Ketil Thorgersen:
>> So - dear clever people: Should I abandon the card or do you have some
>> ideas for a possible solution for me?
> Depends on what is more valuable to you: your time or a few hundred
> bucks for a new interface. Nowadays there is quite a choice of midprice
> USB audio interfaces, which work with Linux without hassle.
>
> My experience with M-Audio interfaces (I have a Fast Track Pro) on Linux
> is also that it's driver seems to not work correctly too often.
>
> For a band I would take a look at the MIDAS MR18, for example. It can
> also replace your mixer (because it is one).
Thanks a lot for your answer! I do not like to waste money (and the
resources of the earth) without at least trying to fix things first. But
that looked like an interesting piece of gear
https://www.thomann.de/gb/midas_mr_18.htm?ref=intl&shp=eyJjb3VudHJ5IjoiZ2IiLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6IjIiLCJsYW5ndWFnZSI6ImVuIn0%3D.
Am I right in assuming that it can record 18 tracks simultaneously? And
it works flawlessly under linux? Can you even utilise the built in
effects under linux?

Any other tips for a decent replacement if I need one (perhaps slightly
cheaper than the Midas)?

All the best!
Ketil


>
> Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
> Linux-audio-***@lists.linuxaudio.org
> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user

[David Kastrup]

Ketil Thorgersen <***@gmail.com> writes:

> Den 2018-08-02 13:42, skrev Christopher Arndt:
>> Am 02.08.2018 um 11:29 schrieb Ketil Thorgersen:
>>> So - dear clever people: Should I abandon the card or do you have some
>>> ideas for a possible solution for me?
>> Depends on what is more valuable to you: your time or a few hundred
>> bucks for a new interface. Nowadays there is quite a choice of midprice
>> USB audio interfaces, which work with Linux without hassle.
>>
>> My experience with M-Audio interfaces (I have a Fast Track Pro) on Linux
>> is also that it's driver seems to not work correctly too often.
>>
>> For a band I would take a look at the MIDAS MR18, for example. It can
>> also replace your mixer (because it is one).
> Thanks a lot for your answer! I do not like to waste money (and the
> resources of the earth) without at least trying to fix things
> first. But that looked like an interesting piece of gear
> https://www.thomann.de/gb/midas_mr_18.htm?ref=intl&shp=eyJjb3VudHJ5IjoiZ2IiLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6IjIiLCJsYW5ndWFnZSI6ImVuIn0%3D. Am
> I right in assuming that it can record 18 tracks simultaneously? And
> it works flawlessly under linux? Can you even utilise the built in
> effects under linux?
>
> Any other tips for a decent replacement if I need one (perhaps
> slightly cheaper than the Midas)?

In the "slightly cheaper" category I'd have a Mackie 1220 Onyx (which
has 4 mic preamps and 4 stereo channels), an RME HDSP Multiface I, a
Cardbus interface card and an Expresscard adapter, and a DB25-to-8-TRS
multicore cable to connect the recording outputs of the Mackie to the
inputs of the Multiface (the TRS plugs are slim enough to fit the
Multiface; that doesn't work with the commonly available cables using
Neutrik plugs). The Multiface will synchronize to ADAT (at 48kHz with 8
channels or 96kHz with 4 channels) so you can hook up another A/D
converter. It will also take/deliver S/PDIF.

The HDSP is quite well supported under Linux/ALSA (it was one of the
first audio cards) and has very high quality converters (hardware
configurable to -10dB, +4dB and HiGain levels). You need the
alsa-firmware package and a few others.

Upside: full mixer, converters are high-end quality. Downside: bulk,
just 4 mic preamps in this configuration, recording cable can be used on
_either_ the mic _or_ the line inputs due to the distribution to the
DB25 connectors (when I needed both, I wired the mic inserts to free
line inputs and recorded the line inputs: not great but workable).

Also, the Expresscard/Cardbus adapter is more awkward than an RME HDSPe
Excpresscard, but the latter is priced beyond reasonable.

I'd let the bundle go for €500 and help with the setup under Linux. The
price is ok if you want the mixer, it makes no sense if you don't.

RME is one of the few companies with good legacy support so this thing
will also work under MacOSX/Windows. That is different than the OS
support of Mackie's Firewire offerings: for that reason Onyx mixers with
Firewire are quite affordable on the 2nd-hand market and are a nice
option for Firewire-capable Linux systems. The specs of the converters
are quite reasonable even if not in the RME ballpark.

Mackie devices with Onyx in their name that I'd recommend against:

Mackie Onyx Satellite (ridiculously bad phantom power supply, delivers
something like 38V and cannot be used with the other input being Hi-Z
since it whines into it, noise-susceptible base station). In connection
with 2 mics tolerating the low voltage and just the satellite, it's
actually a reasonably portable thing but in contrast to USB cards it
needs its own power brick. Doubles nicely as a headphone amp with
balanced line inputs. So basically usable for a few things but by far
not everything that it's supposed to be good for.

Mackie Onyx 400F (the Echo Fireworks DSP card appears to brick far too
easily: I suspect power supply problems in connection with non-volatile
configuration memory). Once bricked, you have 4 preamps with
unfortunately unbalanced outputs (namely the inserts which are in the
analog path).

--
David Kastrup

[Joe Hartley]

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 17:04:23 +0200
Ketil Thorgersen <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Any other tips for a decent replacement if I need one (perhaps slightly
> cheaper than the Midas)?

I've had a Soundcraft MTK mixer for a while now, and am very happy with it.
It sends each channel (post-gain, pre-EQ) out via USB as well as the master
L and R channels. All digital I/O is 48K/24-bit.

It's not a digital mixer, so using a tablet to mix like the Midas is not
really an option, but they run a bit cheaper than the Midas gear, and sound
great. I quite like the preamps and the EQ; the FX are by Lexicon which
seems pretty common on most mixers with FX these days.

--
======================================================================
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - ***@brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa

[Ketil Thorgersen]

Den 2018-08-02 18:25, skrev Joe Hartley:
> On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 17:04:23 +0200
> Ketil Thorgersen <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Any other tips for a decent replacement if I need one (perhaps slightly
>> cheaper than the Midas)?
> I've had a Soundcraft MTK mixer for a while now, and am very happy with it.
> It sends each channel (post-gain, pre-EQ) out via USB as well as the master
> L and R channels. All digital I/O is 48K/24-bit.
>
> It's not a digital mixer, so using a tablet to mix like the Midas is not
> really an option, but they run a bit cheaper than the Midas gear, and sound
> great. I quite like the preamps and the EQ; the FX are by Lexicon which
> seems pretty common on most mixers with FX these days.
>
Thanks!
This looks like a really nice card/mixer - but considering that the
Midas has twice the inputs the price of the Midas seems like a really
good one - if I should need more than 8 inputs (which we turned out to
need during the last session). I will count my money and look for good
deals I guess. That is if I do not get the M-audio to perform.

Ketil

[Joe Hartley]

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 19:06:31 +0200
Ketil Thorgersen <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> This looks like a really nice card/mixer - but considering that the
> Midas has twice the inputs the price of the Midas seems like a really
> good one - if I should need more than 8 inputs (which we turned out to
> need during the last session). I will count my money and look for good
> deals I guess. That is if I do not get the M-audio to perform.

I have the MTK22, which has 16 XLR ins, and the last 2 channels have
stereo line-ins. I think Soundcraft did a good job with offering
this line at various size/price points.

--
======================================================================
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - ***@brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa

[Martín Ferrari]

I have an M-Audio FastTrack Pro, and I have issues with recording also. It works fine for a while, but eventually it records with a lot of static noise. I tried several things, but found no solution. I have to turn it off and on again, and it starts working properly again.



Martín.


________________________________
De: Linux-audio-user <linux-audio-user-***@lists.linuxaudio.org> en nombre de Joe Hartley <***@brainiac.com>
Enviado: jueves, 2 de agosto de 2018 17:11
Para: linux-audio-***@lists.linuxaudio.org
Asunto: Re: [LAU] M-Audio Fast Track Pro: unreliable, distorted recording

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 19:06:31 +0200
Ketil Thorgersen <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> This looks like a really nice card/mixer - but considering that the
> Midas has twice the inputs the price of the Midas seems like a really
> good one - if I should need more than 8 inputs (which we turned out to
> need during the last session). I will count my money and look for good
> deals I guess. That is if I do not get the M-audio to perform.

I have the MTK22, which has 16 XLR ins, and the last 2 channels have
stereo line-ins. I think Soundcraft did a good job with offering
this line at various size/price points.

--
======================================================================
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - ***@brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa

[Felix Homann]

This is kind of a funny coincidence. Back in 2010 I needed a mixer I could
easily remotely control and started to build a setup with a laptop and an
M-Audio Fast Track Ultra 8R (FTU8R). I soon found out that the FTU8R wasn't
exactly working under Linux, though, so I started digging into it, got
people with more knowledge into it (Daniel Mack) and when finally Aurelein
Leblond donated a FTU for development to Daniel we finally got support for
these an similar devices in Linux. (I just did the mixer controls).
I switched to a Berhigner XR18 as son as they were available: It was all I
ever wanted in a singel box. Switched to the Midas MR18 last year. It works
perfectly for my needs, I get much better latency without XRuns than I ever
did with the FTU8R.

This being said, just *today* I resurrected my FTU8R after almost 4 years
for the first time for a new project. Mine works fine.

Most of the times when the FTU8R sound really ugly it's either
a) Some FX that have not been muted.
b) interference of the direct output with the signal through the computer.

Check your mixer settings either with alsamixer or FTU-Mixer:
https://github.com/JonasSC/FTU-Mixer .

If FTU-Mixer crashes, like it did for me on Fedora 28, try my fixed (?)
version of it:

https://github.com/showlabor/FTU-Mixer

Good luck and, please, give some feedback so we know if it worked.

Kind regards,
Felix

[Ketil Thorgersen]

Den 2018-08-02 20:32, skrev Felix Homann:
> This is kind of a funny coincidence. Back in 2010 I needed a mixer I
> could easily remotely control and started to build a setup with a
> laptop and an M-Audio Fast Track Ultra 8R (FTU8R). I soon found out
> that the FTU8R wasn't exactly working under Linux, though, so I
> started digging into it, got people with more knowledge into it
> (Daniel Mack) and when finally Aurelein Leblond donated a FTU for
> development to Daniel we finally got support for these an similar
> devices in Linux. (I just did the mixer controls).
> I switched to a Berhigner XR18 as son as they were available: It was
> all I ever wanted in a singel box. Switched to the Midas MR18 last
> year. It works perfectly for my needs, I get much better latency
> without XRuns than I ever did with the FTU8R.
>
> This being said, just *today* I resurrected my FTU8R after almost 4
> years for the first time for a new project. Mine works fine.
>
> Most of the times when the FTU8R sound really ugly it's either
> a) Some FX that have not been muted.
> b) interference of the direct output with the signal through the computer.
>
> Check your mixer settings either with alsamixer or FTU-Mixer:
> https://github.com/JonasSC/FTU-Mixer .
>
> If FTU-Mixer crashes, like it did for me on Fedora 28, try my fixed
> (?) version of it:
>
> https://github.com/showlabor/FTU-Mixer

Wow! Thanks!

Too late now but I will try this tomorrow. Great feedback (even if I am
now very tempted to buy the Midas!)

All the best!

Ketil

[Felix Homann]

Sorry for the *many, many* typos in my email! It's been way too hot in my
office.

Kind regards,
Felix

[Christopher Arndt]

Am 02.08.2018 um 17:04 schrieb Ketil Thorgersen:
> Den 2018-08-02 13:42, skrev Christopher Arndt:
>>
>> For a band I would take a look at the MIDAS MR18, for example.

> Am I right in assuming that it can record 18 tracks simultaneously?

Yes, you can switch between two modes, where it either acts as a
two-channel audio interface (presumably with potentially less latency)
or a 18-channel one.

> Can you even utilise the built in effects under linux?

Yes, the effects work independently of the audio interface, think of
this device as a digital mixer without a hardware control interface,
wich also happens to be a 2or 18 channel audio interface.

> And it works flawlessly under linux?

So far I had no complaints. With my my system (a 5 year old intel i5
laptop), I use a Jack frame size of 256 for the 18-channel mode.
Admittedly, this isn't super low-latency and not ideal for
multi-tracking and overdubbing, but for tracking a band it's adequate, I
think.

The thing is that you control this device totally via OSC (Open Sound
Contro) and Behringer/MIDAs provides a GUI control interface (which
talks OSC to the device via Ethernet or WiFi) for Windows, OS X, Linux
(64-bit), iOS and Android. For the latter there are even third-party
control apps, which provide a slightly better user experience. You can
even send OSC messages incapsulated into MIDI sysex messages to the
devices via the standard DIN-MIDI interface (i.e you could program a
MIDI controller floor board to turn on/off channels or effects).

But once you have programmed your routing, you can use these devices
also as standalone (sub-)mixers, e.g. as a mixer for the the whole band
in the rehearsal room, as a keyboard submixer, or a monitor mixer.


BTW, the MIDAS MR18 is almost the same device as the Behringer XR-18,
except that the latter has two inputs, which also can accepts instrument
(guitar) level), and the former has better Neutrik XLR sockets with
locking mechanism.


Cheers, Chris

[Felix Homann]

Christopher Arndt <***@chrisarndt.de> schrieb am Fr., 3. Aug. 2018 um
00:41 Uhr:

>
> Admittedly, this isn't super low-latency and not ideal for
> multi-tracking and overdubbing, but for tracking a band it's adequate, I
> think.
>

Keep in mind, though, that with the MR/XR 18 you have almost zero latency
hardware monitoring via the mixer. So you might not need ultra low latency
but only latency compensation which the DAW can do.



> The thing is that you control this device totally via OSC (Open Sound
> Contro)
>

And that's been the main selling point for me because it's relatively easy
to program some show automation this way.


>
> BTW, the MIDAS MR18 is almost the same device as the Behringer XR-18,
> except that the latter has two inputs, which also can accepts instrument
> (guitar) level), and the former has better Neutrik XLR sockets with
> locking mechanism.
>

The preamps of the MR18 are noticeably better than the ones in the XR18.
While "sounds better" is rather subjective the noise floor of the Midas
version is even measurably much lower for higher gain. The output level of
the MR18 is higher, too, with less noise. The Hi-Z inputs of the XR18 on
the other hand are a convenience but I get much better results with
external DI boxes. So in essence, the XR18 is very good IMHO, but the MR18
is even better and the price difference is reasonable (the Midas has 10
years of warranty BTW, while the Behringer only comes with 3).

This being said, Ketil, if the issues with the FTU8R are not hardware
related (as it seems) it should work rather good in Linux, so please, still
give it a try.

Regards,
Felix

[Ketil Thorgersen]

Den 2018-08-03 00:41, skrev Christopher Arndt:
> Am 02.08.2018 um 17:04 schrieb Ketil Thorgersen:
>> Den 2018-08-02 13:42, skrev Christopher Arndt:
>>> For a band I would take a look at the MIDAS MR18, for example.
>> Am I right in assuming that it can record 18 tracks simultaneously?
> Yes, you can switch between two modes, where it either acts as a
> two-channel audio interface (presumably with potentially less latency)
> or a 18-channel one.
>
>> Can you even utilise the built in effects under linux?
> Yes, the effects work independently of the audio interface, think of
> this device as a digital mixer without a hardware control interface,
> wich also happens to be a 2or 18 channel audio interface.
>
>> And it works flawlessly under linux?
> So far I had no complaints. With my my system (a 5 year old intel i5
> laptop), I use a Jack frame size of 256 for the 18-channel mode.
> Admittedly, this isn't super low-latency and not ideal for
> multi-tracking and overdubbing, but for tracking a band it's adequate, I
> think.
>
> The thing is that you control this device totally via OSC (Open Sound
> Contro) and Behringer/MIDAs provides a GUI control interface (which
> talks OSC to the device via Ethernet or WiFi) for Windows, OS X, Linux
> (64-bit), iOS and Android. For the latter there are even third-party
> control apps, which provide a slightly better user experience. You can
> even send OSC messages incapsulated into MIDI sysex messages to the
> devices via the standard DIN-MIDI interface (i.e you could program a
> MIDI controller floor board to turn on/off channels or effects).
>
> But once you have programmed your routing, you can use these devices
> also as standalone (sub-)mixers, e.g. as a mixer for the the whole band
> in the rehearsal room, as a keyboard submixer, or a monitor mixer.
>
>
> BTW, the MIDAS MR18 is almost the same device as the Behringer XR-18,
> except that the latter has two inputs, which also can accepts instrument
> (guitar) level), and the former has better Neutrik XLR sockets with
> locking mechanism.
>
>
> Cheers, Chris

Thanks a lot!
I am really tempted to buy this - will probably do it even.

And to all of you who have been helpful. I did some more testing today.
Managed to get it almost silent through silencing all effects (thanks
for that tip) but there is still noise on some of the channels if I
crank it up enough. And some very silent digital noise tend to appear
after som playing around. I'll probably donate this to my school and go
for the Midas instead.

Thank you all so much for the help with this!!!
Happy playing!
Ketil

[Christopher Arndt]

Am 04.08.2018 um 00:06 schrieb Ketil Thorgersen:
> I am really tempted to buy this - will probably do it even.

You can also install any of the control apps without having the hardware
(yet) and run them in offline mode, so you can get a feel for what's
possible.

Be aware though, that this is a powerful and complex device, so it is
advisable to watch some YT tutorial videos on how to set up the routing
for different purposes.


Chris

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 01:49:07 +0200, Christopher Arndt wrote:
>Be aware though, that this is a powerful and complex device, so it is
>advisable to watch some YT tutorial videos on how to set up the routing
>for different purposes.

Even 'powerful and complex' professional audio gear is designed to be
self-explaining. I learned the hard way to stay away from less
expensive gear, that provides professional audio quality and features,
but a bad design to use it. Such gear ends up as dust catcher and for
the money of two dust catchers, we get one device that is usable, while
we are in an emotional creative process.

I can't comment on the mentioned device, however, a 'be aware' warning,
that a brief look into the manual isn't enough, doesn't sound promising.

[Felix Homann]

Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> schrieb am Sa., 4. Aug. 2018 um
07:13 Uhr:

>
> Even 'powerful and complex' professional audio gear is designed to be
> self-explaining.


Sorry, in general that's just nonsense. Or do you think e.g. a Soundcraft
Vi7000, or a Sennheiser Digital 9000 system or a Yamaha Montage 8 are
self-explaining in any way? To someone who has only worked with an M-Audio
Fast Track audio interface before?


> I can't comment on the mentioned device, however, a 'be aware' warning,
> that a brief look into the manual isn't enough, doesn't sound promising.
>

So why did you comment anyway? And why do you indicate that you'd expect
the device in question as ending as a dust catcher - without any knowledge
of the device, just based on the friendly advice that it is more complex
than an audio interface. Why do you do this?

The Behringer X Air and Midas M Air devices are actually pretty straight
forward when you're familiar with some concepts of digital mixing desks
(e.g. "Send to Fader" or routing capabilites). So it's those concepts of
digital mixing that require some learning if you're not already acquainted
with them - regardless if you read them up or watch videos.

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 2018-08-04 at 15:03 +0200, Felix Homann wrote:
> Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> schrieb am Sa., 4. Aug. 2018 um 07:13 Uhr:
> > Even 'powerful and complex' professional audio gear is designed to be
> > self-explaining.
>
> Sorry, in general that's just nonsense

Sure, nowadays the truth is nonsense, alternative facts are better. You
are aware that professional audio engineers often are working at
different locations, with different gear and that they are often faced
with a device, they never used before? That's no problem, if those
devices are self-explaining.

Yes, regarding some very special gear, a brief look into the user manual
or a short explanation of somebody who worked with the device could be
useful.

However, I own at least two devices, with that bad designed user
interfaces, that I don't or at best seldom use them, even while I know
how to operate those devices.

It's worth to chime in, even while I don't know this particular device,
when you recommend YouTube videos. What's wrong with the user manual? Is
it that complicated, that it requires to take lessons to use the device?

[Dale Powell]

________________________________
From: Linux-audio-user <linux-audio-user-***@lists.linuxaudio.org> on behalf of Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net>
Sent: 04 August 2018 14:08
To: linux-audio-***@lists.linuxaudio.org
Subject: Re: [LAU] M-Audio Fast Track Pro: unreliable, distorted recording

On Sat, 2018-08-04 at 15:03 +0200, Felix Homann wrote:
> Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> schrieb am Sa., 4. Aug. 2018 um 07:13 Uhr:
> > Even 'powerful and complex' professional audio gear is designed to be
> > self-explaining.
>
> Sorry, in general that's just nonsense

Sure, nowadays the truth is nonsense, alternative facts are better. You
are aware that professional audio engineers often are working at
different locations, with different gear and that they are often faced
with a device, they never used before? That's no problem, if those
devices are self-explaining.


Self explanatory to an audio professional and self explanatory to a typical home user and very different things! I would not expect any home user to sit in front of pretty much any digital mixing console and be able to configure it as desired without resorting to manuals or videos! Especially if working with Dante or similar. Even users migrating from cheap audio interfaces to RME and coming across the likes of TotalMix for the first time find that rather confusing and that is simple compared to the options in such devices!!!


It's worth to chime in, even while I don't know this particular device,
when you recommend YouTube videos. What's wrong with the user manual? Is
it that complicated, that it requires to take lessons to use the device?


Some people like reading manuals, other people like watching videos. The same learning processes do not work for all of us! Just because this is a red flag to you doesn't mean anything in the larger scale of things!

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 2018-08-04 at 14:18 +0000, Dale Powell wrote:
> Some people like reading manuals, other people like watching videos.
> The same learning processes do not work for all of us! Just because
> this is a red flag to you doesn't mean anything in the larger scale of
> things!

Hi,

you completely misunderstood my point. I tried to point out that a lot
of very cheap devices, that provide professional garde audio quality,
often suffer from a very bad designed user interface. I don't claim that
the device mentioned here is such a device, I only tried to provide a
hint, of what the OP should take care. Why is this such a problem?

Who needs a manual or a video tutorial for a mixer? This device is a
mixer, just the user interface is not made of real faders and knobs, the
user interface is a touch screen. Hopefully you now understand my
doubts.

Regards,
Ralf

[Felix Homann]

Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> schrieb am Sa., 4. Aug. 2018 um
16:08 Uhr:

>
> Sure, nowadays the truth is nonsense, alternative facts are better.


OMG, in your favour, I guess, I better blame that one on the heat.

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 2018-08-04 at 18:18 +0200, Felix Homann wrote:
> Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> schrieb am Sa., 4. Aug. 2018 um 16:08 Uhr:
> > Sure, nowadays the truth is nonsense, alternative facts are better.
>
> OMG, in your favour, I guess, I better blame that one on the heat.

You talk pretty big for somebody providing programs for schools and
children and at the same time cooperating with companies such as KOSMOS
and Amazon, see http://showlabor.de/ . This is real a red flag and I'm
not the first one mentioning it on this mailing list, but you ask for
doing it again.

[Tim]

On 08/04/2018 12:30 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Sat, 2018-08-04 at 18:18 +0200, Felix Homann wrote:
>> Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> schrieb am Sa., 4. Aug. 2018 um 16:08 Uhr:
>>> Sure, nowadays the truth is nonsense, alternative facts are better.
>>
>> OMG, in your favour, I guess, I better blame that one on the heat.
>
> You talk pretty big for somebody providing programs for schools and
> children and at the same time cooperating with companies such as KOSMOS
> and Amazon, see http://showlabor.de/ . This is real a red flag and I'm
> not the first one mentioning it on this mailing list, but you ask for
> doing it again.

Ralf that is a low blow, dude. A red card for sure.
Completely irrelevant to the thread. Again.
You should apologize to the user and to this group.

You are a valued contributing member of this group
but holy shit man, get a grip sometimes, will ya?

Tim.

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 13:35:23 -0400, Tim wrote:
>On 08/04/2018 12:30 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> On Sat, 2018-08-04 at 18:18 +0200, Felix Homann wrote:
>>> Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> schrieb am Sa., 4. Aug.
>>> 2018 um 16:08 Uhr:
>>>> Sure, nowadays the truth is nonsense, alternative facts are
>>>> better.
>>>
>>> OMG, in your favour, I guess, I better blame that one on the heat.
>>
>> You talk pretty big for somebody providing programs for schools and
>> children and at the same time cooperating with companies such as
>> KOSMOS and Amazon, see http://showlabor.de/ . This is real a red
>> flag and I'm not the first one mentioning it on this mailing list,
>> but you ask for doing it again.
>
>Ralf that is a low blow, dude. A red card for sure.
>Completely irrelevant to the thread. Again.
>You should apologize to the user and to this group.
>
>You are a valued contributing member of this group
> but holy shit man, get a grip sometimes, will ya?

On-topic:

It was not and still is not irrelevant, if a named brand selling
professional grade mixing consoles, in a completely different price
range, than that cheap device mentioned here, while the device
reportedly provides excellent audio quality and it was recommended to
watch video tutorials, since it's a 'powerful and complex' device, that
exactly this probably could be a fly in the ointment of this device.
It's a mixer. While using it via a touch screen, it still
remains a mixer. I only try to warn, that a good audio quality device,
for less money could have a pitfall. In my experiences the pitfall
usually are durability and/or the user interface. If it's recommended
to watch a video tutorial, how to use a mixer, I indeed would take
a look, since there should be no need to watch a video or to even read
a user manual, to use a mixer. If it should be needed, than something
is fishy with the user interface.

Off-topic:

Yes, I will apologize as soon as other will apologize, too, who
mentioned the "working with children and propaganda to order kits for
the kids via Amazon" discrepancy a long time before I did. Actually
it's related to this thread, since it says much about Felix'
credibility. I clearly explained the reason for my hint and he started
an offence and apart from this his offence contains absurd claims
regarding professional audio gear. Too funny, since I worked for decades
as professional audio and video engineer and at the moment I've got
an employment agreement for 1 1/2 years in childcare, with just 5 month
left. A part of my job in childcare, is exactly doing such work as he
offers.

I never was interested in this off-topic talk, my original reply was
on-topic. I didn't start it!

--
There's a photo from me on the official website of my workplace:

https://wunderschuleoberhausen.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/hofansicht.jpg

I'm the one under the yew tree in the yew tree green jacket.

[Tim]

On 08/04/2018 02:32 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 13:35:23 -0400, Tim wrote:
>> On 08/04/2018 12:30 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>>> On Sat, 2018-08-04 at 18:18 +0200, Felix Homann wrote:
>>>> Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> schrieb am Sa., 4. Aug.
>>>> 2018 um 16:08 Uhr:
>>>>> Sure, nowadays the truth is nonsense, alternative facts are
>>>>> better.
>>>>
>>>> OMG, in your favour, I guess, I better blame that one on the heat.
>>>
>>> You talk pretty big for somebody providing programs for schools and
>>> children and at the same time cooperating with companies such as
>>> KOSMOS and Amazon, see http://showlabor.de/ . This is real a red
>>> flag and I'm not the first one mentioning it on this mailing list,
>>> but you ask for doing it again.
>>
>> Ralf that is a low blow, dude. A red card for sure.
>> Completely irrelevant to the thread. Again.
>> You should apologize to the user and to this group.
>>
>> You are a valued contributing member of this group
>> but holy shit man, get a grip sometimes, will ya?
>
> On-topic:
>
> It was not and still is not irrelevant, if a named brand selling
> professional grade mixing consoles, in a completely different price
> range, than that cheap device mentioned here, while the device
> reportedly provides excellent audio quality and it was recommended to
> watch video tutorials, since it's a 'powerful and complex' device, that
> exactly this probably could be a fly in the ointment of this device.
> It's a mixer. While using it via a touch screen, it still
> remains a mixer. I only try to warn, that a good audio quality device,
> for less money could have a pitfall. In my experiences the pitfall
> usually are durability and/or the user interface. If it's recommended
> to watch a video tutorial, how to use a mixer, I indeed would take
> a look, since there should be no need to watch a video or to even read
> a user manual, to use a mixer. If it should be needed, than something
> is fishy with the user interface.

I was not commenting on this.
Point taken, your opinion is valued. As are others' opinions.

It is this which I take offense to:

> Off-topic:
>
> Yes, I will apologize as soon as other will apologize, too, who
> mentioned the "working with children and propaganda to order kits for
> the kids via Amazon" discrepancy a long time before I did. Actually
> it's related to this thread, since it says much about Felix'
> credibility. I clearly explained the reason for my hint and he started
> an offence and apart from this his offence contains absurd claims
> regarding professional audio gear. Too funny, since I worked for decades
> as professional audio and video engineer and at the moment I've got
> an employment agreement for 1 1/2 years in childcare, with just 5 month
> left. A part of my job in childcare, is exactly doing such work as he
> offers.
>
> I never was interested in this off-topic talk, my original reply was
> on-topic. I didn't start it!

Bullshit. Yes, you did. When you personally attacked the member
just for offering his help and opinion. The strongest word used
was 'nonsense', a word often used around here, including by you.
What makes his opinion so invalid or any less than yours?
You are both professionals with helpful knowledge.

So as we can now see in plain view, you have a history with this
member and you just let it all spill out right here for no good reason.

Credibility? Holy fuck. This list is about opinions, and helping others.
Whoever can help does so. Readers know to take everything said with a
grain of salt, no implied warranty. If it helps, great.
This crap does not.

Tim.

[David Kastrup]

Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> writes:

> Off-topic:
>
> Yes, I will apologize as soon as other will apologize, too, who
> mentioned the "working with children and propaganda to order kits for
> the kids via Amazon" discrepancy a long time before I did. Actually
> it's related to this thread, since it says much about Felix'
> credibility.

That's complete and utter garbage. The discussion did not at any point
rely on arguments by authority, so Felix' "credibility" is completely
unrelated to his argument. Your ad hominem attack rather severely harms
your own credibility since it seems that you have run out of other means
of persuasion.

> I clearly explained the reason for my hint and he started an offence
> and apart from this his offence contains absurd claims regarding
> professional audio gear.

His offence, apparently, being that he disagrees with you.

> Too funny, since I worked for decades as professional audio and video
> engineer and at the moment I've got an employment agreement for 1 1/2
> years in childcare, with just 5 month left. A part of my job in
> childcare, is exactly doing such work as he offers.

Ah, so now we are getting to "arguments by authority".

> I never was interested in this off-topic talk, my original reply was
> on-topic. I didn't start it!

You most certainly started the ad hominem attacks and the argument by
authority bullshit. You didn't start the disagreement but this is a
discussion group and your role in it is not that of a pope but of a
contributor.

I very much agree that you were totally out of line here. Unfortunately
for Felix and the general appearance of the list, the resources for
maintaining a mailing list like this really preclude adding a layer of
moderation so it is a resource problem to stop people from occasionally
seeing a list member go off the rails.

If the problem becomes systematic and not otherwise possible to deal
with, that might warrant action.

--
David Kastrup

[Felix Homann]

First, thanks to Tim and David! It's nice to have your support :-) Highly
appreciated!


Now for Ralf:

Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> schrieb am Sa., 4. Aug. 2018 um
20:32 Uhr:

>
> Yes, I will apologize as soon as other will apologize, too, who
> mentioned the "working with children and propaganda to order kits for
> the kids via Amazon" discrepancy a long time before I did.


Ralf,
Fons did not mention anything related to Amazon. Fons did apologize on
April 7, 2015. Without having to be pushed to do so, without any
preconditions.

Moreover, on my website I just show *what I have created and where to get
it*. Even when I linked to commercials on Youtube for kits that were not
created by me - those commercials were there as working samples. Think of
something like a showreel. That's part of my job. I can't see anything
wrong with it. I have never sold anything after my shows and I have never
tried to do so. There's no merch available, no kits, no books - nothing.


> Actually
> it's related to this thread, since it says much about Felix'
> credibility.


How is my credibility related to the discussion? What does "it" tell you
about my credibility? There's no secret connection to anything! You're
simply trying to discredit me for whatever reasons - AGAIN!

You can probably safely desist from any kind of apology. I can hardly take
it seriously anymore now that you repeated your attacks and try to
discredit my integrity and credibility even more directly with your last
email.



> I clearly explained the reason for my hint and he started
> an offence and apart from this his offence contains absurd claims
> regarding professional audio gear.


I called your idea of "Even 'powerful and complex' professional gear is
designed to be self-explaing" nonsense in general. That is true. I did not
expect you to see this as an offense. But in fact, I even misread your
statement in that I interpreted it as saying "*All* professional gear is
designed to be self-explaing."

I therefore unconditionally apologize for my "nonsense" statement. I'm
sorry!

[Paul Davis]

On Sat, Aug 4, 2018 at 3:52 PM, Felix Homann <***@showlabor.de>
wrote:

> First, thanks to Tim and David! It's nice to have your support :-) Highly
> appreciated!
>

you can all make this much easier:

×

[David Kastrup]

Paul Davis <***@linuxaudiosystems.com> writes:

> On Sat, Aug 4, 2018 at 3:52 PM, Felix Homann <***@showlabor.de>
> wrote:
>
>> First, thanks to Tim and David! It's nice to have your support :-) Highly
>> appreciated!
>>
>
> you can all make this much easier:
>
> ×

Some people read the text variant of HTML/text alternatives, you know.
But there is probably non-zero correlation with those who are easily
offended, so that could be a strategic choice...

--
David Kastrup

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 16:28:58 -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
>On Sat, Aug 4, 2018 at 3:52 PM, Felix Homann <***@showlabor.de>
>wrote:
>
>> First, thanks to Tim and David! It's nice to have your support :-)
>> Highly appreciated!
>>
>
>you can all make this much easier:
>
>×

I don't use this address on this mailing list, I might have used it in
the past. There could be reasons to change the email address, regarding
the email provider and/or mailing list set-up, such as a DKIM issue.
However, I'm clearly pro using email filters. Even if I use an email
address that doesn't contain my name, the prefixed is always my real
name. Better filter by my name. I'm not the only German with this name,
but it's a seldom name and nobody with the same name seems to be
present in any Linux related mailing list.

[Tim]

On 08/04/2018 04:28 PM, Paul Davis wrote:
> you can all make this much easier:
>
> ×//

Aw, that ain't the answer, man.

Such actions should be reserved for real arseholes,
foul-mouthed trouble-makers, and spammers, you know?

I find this member is not that. Has been helpful.
We've had pleasant discussions off-list.

I would rather engage with the member and try to point
out some behaviour.

But I'm sorry, when I saw the posts I felt the need to
speak up immediately, you know?
It kinda touches a raw nerve with me, you know?
It's just wrong.

Tim.

[David Kastrup]

Tim <***@rogers.com> writes:

> But I'm sorry, when I saw the posts I felt the need to
> speak up immediately, you know?
> It kinda touches a raw nerve with me, you know?
> It's just wrong.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiuv5hzj5i4>

Everybody attributes to silence what he wants to hear. Not taking a
stand is not a virtue even though it may save trouble, at least
temporarily.

--
David Kastrup

[jonetsu]

On Sun, 05 Aug 2018 01:24:03 +0200
David Kastrup <***@gnu.org> wrote:

> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiuv5hzj5i4>

> Everybody attributes to silence what he wants to hear. Not taking a
> stand is not a virtue even though it may save trouble, at least
> temporarily.

While this is off topic ... Schwarzfahrer ... And so, Fatima Merkel has
taken a stand ?

[David Kastrup]

jonetsu <***@teksavvy.com> writes:

> On Sun, 05 Aug 2018 01:24:03 +0200
> David Kastrup <***@gnu.org> wrote:
>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiuv5hzj5i4>
>
>> Everybody attributes to silence what he wants to hear. Not taking a
>> stand is not a virtue even though it may save trouble, at least
>> temporarily.
>
> While this is off topic ... Schwarzfahrer ... And so, Fatima Merkel has
> taken a stand ?

Shrug. Sometimes an off-topic discussion can make people relate more to
others on a medium that is lacking physical presence so it's a judgment
call of whether or not continuing it is a good or a bad thing. You make
it easy to make that call.

--
David Kastrup

[jonetsu]

On Sun, 05 Aug 2018 05:59:37 +0200
David Kastrup <***@gnu.org> wrote:

> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiuv5hzj5i4>

> >> Everybody attributes to silence what he wants to hear. Not taking
> >> a stand is not a virtue even though it may save trouble, at least
> >> temporarily.

> > While this is off topic ... Schwarzfahrer ... And so, Fatima Merkel
> > has taken a stand ?

> Shrug. Sometimes an off-topic discussion can make people relate more
> to others on a medium that is lacking physical presence so it's a
> judgment call of whether or not continuing it is a good or a bad
> thing. You make it easy to make that call.

Absolutely. You posted a cheap, stereotypical video that's solely made
to exploit a certain narrow range of emotions where truly humane
feelings have no place and are even debased. It is expected that under
those restrictive adopted limits one would immediately feel outraged at
a same strong opinion going the other way. Because there's no leeway,
despite all the pseudo goodness and pseudo chivalry, to squarely face
the exploitation aspect of such propaganda.

[David Kastrup]

jonetsu <***@teksavvy.com> writes:

> On Sun, 05 Aug 2018 05:59:37 +0200
> David Kastrup <***@gnu.org> wrote:
>
>> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiuv5hzj5i4>
>
>> >> Everybody attributes to silence what he wants to hear. Not taking
>> >> a stand is not a virtue even though it may save trouble, at least
>> >> temporarily.
>
>> > While this is off topic ... Schwarzfahrer ... And so, Fatima Merkel
>> > has taken a stand ?
>
>> Shrug. Sometimes an off-topic discussion can make people relate more
>> to others on a medium that is lacking physical presence so it's a
>> judgment call of whether or not continuing it is a good or a bad
>> thing. You make it easy to make that call.
>
> Absolutely. You posted a cheap, stereotypical video that's solely made
> to exploit a certain narrow range of emotions where truly humane
> feelings have no place and are even debased.

Shrug. The point was that silence tends to be interpreted as
enticement, so speaking up when you consider something just wrong makes
sense.

"To Kill a Mockingbird" might have been a better example but I'll be
dead before I'll be able to link to book or movie because it made its
point well enough that copyright will keep it out of unpaywalled culture
for another century if not longer.

--
David Kastrup

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sun, 5 Aug 2018 00:31:16 -0400, jonetsu wrote:
>Absolutely. You posted a cheap, stereotypical video that's solely made
>to exploit a certain narrow range of emotions where truly humane
>feelings have no place and are even debased. It is expected that under
>those restrictive adopted limits one would immediately feel outraged at
>a same strong opinion going the other way. Because there's no leeway,
>despite all the pseudo goodness and pseudo chivalry, to squarely face
>the exploitation aspect of such propaganda.

It's well made sarcastic humour, from the times before "political
correctness" became a plague, so it is, but not that that much playing
with the starry-eyed idealism you mentioned, but more with the general
issue of turning a blind eye. Keep in mind the film is older than a
quarter of a century. I suspect for the older generation (people of my
age, around 50 years young) that this is the most known short film in
Germany, even in my hometown Oberhausen, the city of the "International
Short Film Festival Oberhausen". I guess here it's even more known,
than the media hyped Oscar winner short film "Balance", that is also
from around a quarter of a century.

Btw. to eat something or to listen to music even by using headphones in
most, if not all German local public transport vehicles is not
permitted. Joking aside, the translation is missing some nice humour.
The word "Hottentotten" is translated with "savages",
https://www.dict.cc/?s=hottentotten .

Around a quarter of a century this film was often shown by public
service broadcasting. Showing this film would be much more suitable
nowadays, so here is a conspiracy theory: The governing coalition would
dislike to show it nowadays and public service broadcasting cares about
the wishes of the governing coalition. "Black" helicopters, I need to
leave the building.

[David Kastrup]

Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> writes:

> Keep in mind the film is older than a quarter of a century.

I had to look that up. Damn, do I feel old now.

--
David Kastrup

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sun, 2018-08-05 at 12:04 +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
> Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> writes:
>
> > Keep in mind the film is older than a quarter of a century.
>
> I had to look that up. Damn, do I feel old now.

:D

I didn't know how old it is, too. I thought that it wasn't that old.

[jonetsu]

On Sun, 05 Aug 2018 12:04:23 +0200
David Kastrup <***@gnu.org> wrote:

> Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> writes:
>
> > Keep in mind the film is older than a quarter of a century.
>
> I had to look that up. Damn, do I feel old now.

But it's the fifth text line right under the video. Is a fifth line too
far away to be noticed at first glance ? How much of "looking it up" is
a fifth line of text ?

"Regie: Pepe Danquart, Deutschland 1992 "

[jonetsu]

On Sun, 5 Aug 2018 11:52:55 +0200
Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> wrote:

> It's well made sarcastic humour, from the times before "political
> correctness" became a plague, so it is, but not that that much playing
> with the starry-eyed idealism you mentioned, but more with the general
> issue of turning a blind eye.

Well then, here's something even funnier:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFgSRM1ANjU

> Around a quarter of a century this film was often shown by public
> service broadcasting. Showing this film would be much more suitable
> nowadays, so here is a conspiracy theory: The governing coalition
> would dislike to show it nowadays and public service broadcasting
> cares about the wishes of the governing coalition.

Well, in Germany there might be Total Freedom of the Press, which I
doubt, but that's certainly not the absolute case in many other
Western countries. A recent case in point: after hitting a couple,
Macron's protégé and security guard Benalla gets a clean shave taking
off his long beard that looks too "islamic", gets a pair of glasses
that makes him look intellectual, and gets on prime TV explaining how
hard his life was. How sorry people should feel about this poor guy
hitting other people around. To consider that it is a "conspiracy" to
think that political figures are not tailor-made for medias, as well as
related issues, to see it as a "governing coalition" is somewhat funny
though.

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 15:03:25 +0200, Felix Homann wrote:
>Ralf Mardorf schrieb am Sa., 4. Aug. 2018 um 07:13 Uhr:
>> I can't comment on the mentioned device, however, a 'be aware'
>> warning, that a brief look into the manual isn't enough, doesn't
>> sound promising.
>So why did you comment anyway? And why do you indicate that you'd
>expect the device in question as ending as a dust catcher - without
>any knowledge of the device, just based on the friendly advice that it
>is more complex than an audio interface. Why do you do this?

I guess we clarified this, so here's the résumé. We do not need to know
everything, but still could be careful.

If we can not or do not want to spend much money for gear, but expect
high sound quality, we should consider that it is possible that

- there could be reliability/durability issues
- there could be maintenance issues How long does it e.g. take to open
and close the case, just to replace a capacitor?
- the user interface could be that bad, that using the device by a
reasonable work-flow is more or less impossible
(- worker conditions) [1]

[1] I put it in parentheses, since worker conditions of those making
expensive gear are not necessarily good, worker conditions of those
making inexpensive gear are not necessarily bad.
A Mexican or Korean guitar for less money could be from way better
quality, than a guitar from a named brand produced in the USA, so if we
pay much more money, we still could get a less good instrument. To get
information regarding worker conditions, we often need a crystal ball.
Unfortunately bad worker conditions sometimes are better than being
jobless.

On Sat, 2018-08-04 at 21:52 +0200, Felix Homann wrote:
> You can probably safely desist from any kind of apology. I can hardly
> take it seriously anymore now that you repeated your attacks and try
> to discredit my integrity and credibility even more directly with your
> last email.

Ok, anyway, my apologies. So we could stop it?

[David Kastrup]

Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> writes:

> On Sat, 2018-08-04 at 21:52 +0200, Felix Homann wrote:
>> You can probably safely desist from any kind of apology. I can hardly
>> take it seriously anymore now that you repeated your attacks and try
>> to discredit my integrity and credibility even more directly with your
>> last email.
>
> Ok, anyway, my apologies. So we could stop it?

"it" being the discussion you tried distracting from (sort of
successfully) or the wild ad hominem attacks only you indulged in? I
don't see that Felix is even in the situation of knowing what you want
him to stop in order for you to stop your completely unsolicited
attacks. I mean, short of him to stop existing.

This really reminds me of the time I had some personal troll attacking
me on the TeX Usenet group whenever I suggested using some tool (Free
Software, by the way) I suggested to use for a particular use case since
I had not disclosed my "vested interest" since I was its author and had
on some website the information that I'd be willing to take payment for
further work on it. It was sort of annoying but also sort of hilarious.

Hey, found it:

<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.text.tex/YyLjqUzl-ko/6Z76M-sDKegJ>

I'm surprised it's been only 8 years: feels so much longer ago (though
he probably popped up for a few years previous to that). At any rate,
this compulsion to attack Felix' credibility for some grudge about
something you somehow resented discovering for reasons of your own
3 years ago reminded me a lot of it.

You don't have anything to win from that grudge: no reputation and no
factual argument. So there is no point in trying to bargain with others
in return for stopping to damage yourself. Just let it go.

--
David Kastrup

[Felix Homann]

Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> schrieb am Sa., 4. Aug. 2018 um
22:45 Uhr:

>
> Ok, anyway, my apologies. So we could stop it?
>

Ralf,

I do not accept this so-called "apology".
You did not withdraw from anything! You did not step back from your
attacks. You didn't correct your views on my overall credibility. You're
still suggesting my work, my opinion, my character itself is somehow flawed
by the work I'm doing. You didn't even tell me what exactly you're
apologozing for.

So, in my eyes this "apology" is not even half-hearted. Just words without
meaning. I get the impression that you just want to safe yourself from
being kicked from your "playground", i.e. this mailing list. No, I just
can't accept it!

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sun, 2018-08-05 at 12:32 +0200, Felix Homann wrote:
No, I just can't accept it!

Ok, you are free to not accept it, but I neither want to continue the
dispute, nor discuss the apology. From now on I'll ignore all mails
regarding this toppic.

[David Kastrup]

Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> writes:

> On Sun, 2018-08-05 at 12:32 +0200, Felix Homann wrote:
> No, I just can't accept it!
>
> Ok, you are free to not accept it, but I neither want to continue the
> dispute, nor discuss the apology. From now on I'll ignore all mails
> regarding this toppic.

The best way to ignore mails regarding this topic would be not to press
the "Send" key after writing them.

--
David Kastrup

[Ketil Thorgersen]

I am really happy for the help I received and equally sorry for having set off this crazy argument.
I wish you all the best!
Ketil

Sendt fra min iPad

> 5. aug. 2018 kl. 13:46 skrev David Kastrup <***@gnu.org>:
>
> Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> writes:
>
>> On Sun, 2018-08-05 at 12:32 +0200, Felix Homann wrote:
>> No, I just can't accept it!
>>
>> Ok, you are free to not accept it, but I neither want to continue the
>> dispute, nor discuss the apology. From now on I'll ignore all mails
>> regarding this toppic.
>
> The best way to ignore mails regarding this topic would be not to press
> the "Send" key after writing them.
>
> --
> David Kastrup
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
> Linux-audio-***@lists.linuxaudio.org
> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user

[Felix Homann]

Hi Ketil,

Ketil Thorgersen <***@gmail.com> schrieb am So., 5. Aug. 2018
um 23:24 Uhr:

> I am really happy for the help I received and equally sorry for having set
> off this crazy argument.
>

Don't worry, you haven't set off this crazy argument. You have set off a
healthy discussion that did run pretty well until...well.. :-(

You do not have any reason to feel sorry about anything here!

Kind regards,
Felix

[Ketil Thorgersen]

Thanks! Makes me sleep well another night :-)
Ketil

Den ons. 8. aug. 2018, 09:33 skrev Felix Homann <***@showlabor.de>:

>
> Hi Ketil,
>
> Ketil Thorgersen <***@gmail.com> schrieb am So., 5. Aug.
> 2018 um 23:24 Uhr:
>
>> I am really happy for the help I received and equally sorry for having
>> set off this crazy argument.
>>
>
> Don't worry, you haven't set off this crazy argument. You have set off a
> healthy discussion that did run pretty well until...well.. :-(
>
> You do not have any reason to feel sorry about anything here!
>
> Kind regards,
> Felix
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
> Linux-audio-***@lists.linuxaudio.org
> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>

[Felix Homann]

Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> schrieb am Sa., 4. Aug. 2018 um
18:30 Uhr:

>
> You talk pretty big for somebody providing programs for schools and
> children and at the same time cooperating with companies such as KOSMOS
> and Amazon, see http://showlabor.de/ . This is real a red flag and I'm
> not the first one mentioning it on this mailing list, but you ask for
> doing it again.
>

First, the only connection I have with Amazon is that I link to them for
some of the products I have created, written and/or developed. Is this
cooperation? Money I got from Amazon for this linking and/or sales: Zero!

You are indeed the first one seeing it as a red flag that I'm cooperating
with the Kosmos Verlag. In the discussion [1] [2] you're probably referring
to, Fons had a different point and it was all settled and clarified back
then. You have been involved in that discussion as well. You should know!

So, you are trying to discredit me right now for cooperating with a
publisher who publishes my work, my creations, my ideas, my writing. And
you are the first one *ever* who has done so. And then you even claim I
have asked for it? That's totally annoying!

I take this one as a very serious personal attack and won't blame it on the
heat again.
Finally, I don't think that posts such as this one of yours should have a
publishing channel in this mailing list.



[1] http://linux-audio.4202.n7.nabble.com/Behringer-and-Linux-td95478.html

[Guillaume Pellerin]

Hi guys,

What's the hell with this thread??!
It seems like some of you are going crazy or an AI bot try to flood the discussion with pure off-topic shitty sentences...

BTW, just to mention that I had this lovely M-Audio Fast Track Pro working for years without distortion and now recently with a 64 sample JACK buffer through a 4.16.0-0.bpo.2-rt-amd64 kernel, on a good recent laptop.

I can help anyone that give me all precise technical details needed, but avoiding any side psychoanalytic bug report.

G

[David W. Jones]

On August 9, 2018 11:10:11 AM HST, Guillaume Pellerin <***@parisson.com> wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> What's the hell with this thread??!
> It seems like some of you are going crazy or an AI bot try to flood
> the discussion with pure off-topic shitty sentences...

Thanks for the voice of reason. It was just the Internet doing internet things. ;)

> BTW, just to mention that I had this lovely M-Audio Fast Track Pro
> working for years without distortion and now recently with a 64 sample
> JACK buffer through a 4.16.0-0.bpo.2-rt-amd64 kernel, on a good recent
> laptop.
>
> I can help anyone that give me all precise technical details needed,
> but avoiding any side psychoanalytic bug report.

My first thought was a hardware issue with the original poster's specific unit. On my cheap little Behringer UCA-202, when I have it recording from the inputs (say an external hardware keyboard) while simultaneously sending sound through the outputs (say the computer-generated sounds I'm playing along with), the line in signal strength drops in half. Stop sending anything out the unit's outputs, signal back to normal.

Or maybe something originating in a poor electrical ground somewhere in the wiring. If I connect my UCA-202 through a powered external hub, I get static. Disconnect the hub power supply, static is gone.

I also have an old cheap Yamaha keyboard workstation. Simply turning it on introduces steady, low-level white noise.

Sound and electricity can be a complicated mess. ;)

--
David W. Jones
***@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com

Sent from my Android device with F/LOSS K-9 Mail.

[Christopher Arndt]

Am 04.08.2018 um 16:08 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
> On Sat, 2018-08-04 at 15:03 +0200, Felix Homann wrote:
>> Ralf Mardorf <***@alice-dsl.net> schrieb am Sa., 4. Aug. 2018 um 07:13 Uhr:
>>> Even 'powerful and complex' professional audio gear is designed to be
>>> self-explaining.
>>
>> Sorry, in general that's just nonsense
>
> Sure, nowadays the truth is nonsense, alternative facts are better.

Ralf, in my opinion you just have too many opinions on too many things.
It is no wonder that sometimes there are people who see things
differently. Just acknowlegde that, publicly or (better) silently, and
we'll all be able to have a more civilised discussion here,

That's all I'm going to contribute to this dicsussion on this channel.


Chris

[Tim]

On 08/02/2018 05:29 AM, Ketil Thorgersen wrote:
> Dear gurus (and others)
>
> This is perhaps beating a dead horse, but I try....
>
> I post here every fourth year or so, but now I need help from someone
> more knowledgeable than me again. I have used the Fast Track Ultra 8r
> for some time without really using it for anything serious. There have
> been some clicks, pops and static noises, but I have assumed it was
> something with my computer and did not bother to bother.
>
> But the other day my band did a recording session on it and it then
> became evident that it is completely useless as it works now: I am on
> Ubuntu Studio 16.04 with rt kernel on the studio machine, but for
> testing I have now tried it on two other linux machines - one with an
> updated Manjaro system and one with an older Lubuntu. The noise is on
> all these machines. I suspected grounding so I detached the one laptop
> from the power, tried changing power sockets, USB cables, USB sockets
> and so forth, but no change. I then tried to install the drivers in OSX
> on the laptop - and voila - completely silent. I then tried to install
> the driver in windows on the Lubuntu stationary and - silent.
>
> The noise starts as soon as linux initiates the sound-card during
> startup and even if it changes depending on which settings I choose in
> Jack etc it never goes away.
>
> I have of course searched the internet for possible solutions but have
> found none that works. Since it is silent under windows and osx there
> has to be something with how Linux treats the card - either it is the
> drivers (it is supposed to be class compliant though) or something with
> thee USB treatment overall.
>
> So - dear clever people: Should I abandon the card or do you have some
> ideas for a possible solution for me?
>
> All the best!
>
> Ketil
>
>
> Den 2017-10-25 05:42, skrev MartinF:
>> I know this post is old, but has a solution been found?
>>
>> I have the exact same problem. I have seen some posts reporting this
>> issue,
>> but no solution. The card works well in Windows.
>>
>>
>>
>> David Jones wrote
>>> On 04/17/2014 03:04 PM, Morten H wrote:
>>>> david-602 wrote
>>>>> Have you eliminated the possibility of intermittent hardware issues
>>>>> with
>>>>> the FTP? The symptoms suggest that to me.
>>>> I'm not sure what you mean. If you are suggesting that my FTP may be
>>>> defective, that is of course a possibility. But firstly the issues I'm
>>>> having correspond with the issues the original poster had, and secondly
>>>> it
>>>> works perfectly in windows with the m-audio driver.
>>>>
>>>> These two things put together suggest it is not a hardware problem with
>>>> my
>>>> FTP... At least they do to me :-)
>>>>
>>>> Morten
>>

Hi list. Talk of intermittent distorted audio, clicks,
and pops is really sending up a /huge/ red flag for me.

This is just a shot in the dark but have you tried running
with just one CPU core?

Also, is the CPU clock throttling turned off, and are
certain CPU features such as the Intel Hyper Threading
turned off?

Recall some months ago I had trouble with my PCI Delta1010
ice1712-based card. Same issues. Clicks, pops, and
after a while, distortion.
After tough debugging it turns out I must run ONE core only.
I can dig up the thread but basically that's it.
Coincidentally, a few weeks later another poster asked the
very same question about another brand of ice1712 PCI card.
I explained the solution, and he replied that it worked.

It seems to me that if your device works at all sometimes,
it should work all the time.
In my mind this screams out timing errors.
Certain pointers are drifting with time, and not stable.
In my case this was because of more than one CPU core.
I tried affinity settings but it didn't seem to get anywhere.
Only running one CPU worked.

I think there's a small gnome taskbar thing that can set
the CPU frequencies and cores.

Ralf helped with command lines to set the number of cores.
I don't have those commands handy ATM.

Tim.

[Ketil Thorgersen]

Den 2018-08-02 22:09, skrev Tim:
>
>
> On 08/02/2018 05:29 AM, Ketil Thorgersen wrote:
>>
>>
>> So - dear clever people: Should I abandon the card or do you have
>> some ideas for a possible solution for me?
>>
>> All the best!
>>
>> Ketil
>>
>>
>>
>
> Hi list. Talk of intermittent distorted audio, clicks,
>  and pops is really sending up a /huge/ red flag for me.
>
> This is just a shot in the dark but have you tried running
>  with just one CPU core?
>
> Also, is the CPU clock throttling turned off, and are
>  certain CPU features such as the Intel Hyper Threading
>  turned off?
>
> Recall some months ago I had trouble with my PCI Delta1010
>  ice1712-based card. Same issues. Clicks, pops, and
>  after a while, distortion.
> After tough debugging it turns out I must run ONE core only.
> I can dig up the thread but basically that's it.
> Coincidentally, a few weeks later another poster asked the
>  very same question about another brand of ice1712 PCI card.
> I explained the solution, and he replied that it worked.
>
> It seems to me that if your device works at all sometimes,
>  it should work all the time.
> In my mind this screams out timing errors.
> Certain pointers are drifting with time, and not stable.
> In my case this was because of more than one CPU core.
> I tried affinity settings but it didn't seem to get anywhere.
> Only running one CPU worked.
>
> I think there's a small gnome taskbar thing that can set
>  the CPU frequencies and cores.
>
> Ralf helped with command lines to set the number of cores.
> I don't have those commands handy ATM.
>
> Tim.

Thank you!
Interesting! I will test more tomorrow and let you all know if I find a
solution (or if I need help to find out e.g what the Gnome thing is called)
All the best!
Ketil